5 ms·

I wonder how much of the never-upgrade mentality is down to Microsoft insisting on being backwards compatible back till basically the Jurassic period, and provi

by mstade 9y ago

I wonder how much of the never-upgrade mentality is down to Microsoft insisting on being backwards compatible back till basically the Jurassic period, and providing support for obsolete software for years and years. Their intention is commendable, but there's something to be said for sometimes breaking things for what is hopefully the greater good. The rust package manager issue that was on HN the other week comes to mind, where a package called NUL (I think) wreaked havoc on Windows systems because of backwards compatibility with DOS. My point is: why rush to upgrade when you've got "support" anyway? For varying definitions of support.

ambulancechaser 9y ago
I'm not sure that your point makes sense. If Microsoft insists on backwards compatibility, then you _can_ upgrade with "no worries". This policy seems to encourage people to upgrade as the new OS will honor the old mechanisms. In an OS where there was no commitment to backwards compatibility you would have an incentive to not change anything when it works. > My point is: why rush to upgrade when you've got "support" anyway? This is a different point. But you seem to be criticizing the decision by Microsoft to focus on backwards compatibility and support for old operating systems, two things that seem to be commendable.
- mstade 9y ago
  No, my apologies, I'm not being very clear then. I don't mean to criticise Microsoft here, in fact I think their commitment to backwards compatibility is commendable and I think history proves they've at least tried to get people on the automatic updates track. Execution hasn't been flawless, for sure, but we're in better place now than we were 15-20 years ago. And I'm also not trying to draw any conclusions with my post. I'm genuinely wondering whether the fact that Microsoft has been so committed to backwards compatibility has fostered a kind of mentality where people and indeed developers don't upgrade, simply because they know they won't be abandoned anyway. It's always easier not to change anything, and if the message is typically "you'll be fine" anyway then where's the incentive? The "you'll be safer, probably" message doesn't seem to me like it's working. You're probably right that I'm not making much sense, I'm finding it a bit hard to put my thoughts into words here.
kakarot 9y ago
No people fear updates from M$ because M$ has a bad history of bricking devices and pushing hidden privacy-harming updates without consorting their users. Or maybe it's the fact that Windows has to restart after every single software update. Really it's astounding that Microsoft provides this kind of awful updating experience and then inseminates propoganda into people's minds that those who don't auto update their W10 boxes are stupid and endangering themselves. If you use Windows 10 in general, you are stupid and endangering yourself.
- Piskvorrr 9y ago
  I could agree with the first sentence; the rest...not. (AFAIK, Win10 was not affected by the SMB vulnerability, no?)
  - kakarot 9y ago
    Windows doesn't restart after every update for you? You don't believe Microsoft is engaged in propaganda campaigns, specifically the idea that not updating is being a "bad user"? You don't believe that by using Win10, you aren't legitimizing the "OS as Malware" concept and endangering yourself to a huge remote attack surface?
    - Piskvorrr 9y ago
      Can't see the original now, someone flagged it. Even so: - Yes, there are IIRC updates not requiring restart ("not every" <=> "some exist that do not have the property"). - Not updating your existing system is indeed dangerous. Updating your Windows system...is sometimes even more dangerous: I was on the receiving end of "Where do you want to go today? Never mind, you want to upgrade to WinX; stop whining, we know you want it!" That said, there are far more dangerous MS FUD campaigns, I think. - The final question is quite different to your original claim, IIRC; but yes, Win10 IMNSHO falls squarely under "malware," and thus I'm not using it. Not even using Windows, FWIW. Even better, the GWX fiasco helped me persuade people to move off Windows altogether.
- sctb 9y ago
pjmlp 9y ago
PC are now a commodity in most countries (sadly not in all), so unless there is a very compelling reason to upgrade, no one among non technical users will do it, even less when the new OS isn't compatible with their existing software.

by mstade 9y ago

ambulancechaser 9y ago

I'm not sure that your point makes sense. If Microsoft insists on backwards compatibility, then you _can_ upgrade with "no worries". This policy seems to encourage people to upgrade as the new OS will honor the old mechanisms. In an OS where there was no commitment to backwards compatibility you would have an incentive to not change anything when it works. > My point is: why rush to upgrade when you've got "support" anyway? This is a different point. But you seem to be criticizing the decision by Microsoft to focus on backwards compatibility and support for old operating systems, two things that seem to be commendable.

mstade 9y ago
No, my apologies, I'm not being very clear then. I don't mean to criticise Microsoft here, in fact I think their commitment to backwards compatibility is commendable and I think history proves they've at least tried to get people on the automatic updates track. Execution hasn't been flawless, for sure, but we're in better place now than we were 15-20 years ago. And I'm also not trying to draw any conclusions with my post. I'm genuinely wondering whether the fact that Microsoft has been so committed to backwards compatibility has fostered a kind of mentality where people and indeed developers don't upgrade, simply because they know they won't be abandoned anyway. It's always easier not to change anything, and if the message is typically "you'll be fine" anyway then where's the incentive? The "you'll be safer, probably" message doesn't seem to me like it's working. You're probably right that I'm not making much sense, I'm finding it a bit hard to put my thoughts into words here.

kakarot 9y ago

No people fear updates from M$ because M$ has a bad history of bricking devices and pushing hidden privacy-harming updates without consorting their users. Or maybe it's the fact that Windows has to restart after every single software update. Really it's astounding that Microsoft provides this kind of awful updating experience and then inseminates propoganda into people's minds that those who don't auto update their W10 boxes are stupid and endangering themselves. If you use Windows 10 in general, you are stupid and endangering yourself.

Piskvorrr 9y ago
I could agree with the first sentence; the rest...not. (AFAIK, Win10 was not affected by the SMB vulnerability, no?)
- kakarot 9y ago
  Windows doesn't restart after every update for you? You don't believe Microsoft is engaged in propaganda campaigns, specifically the idea that not updating is being a "bad user"? You don't believe that by using Win10, you aren't legitimizing the "OS as Malware" concept and endangering yourself to a huge remote attack surface?
  - Piskvorrr 9y ago
    Can't see the original now, someone flagged it. Even so: - Yes, there are IIRC updates not requiring restart ("not every" <=> "some exist that do not have the property"). - Not updating your existing system is indeed dangerous. Updating your Windows system...is sometimes even more dangerous: I was on the receiving end of "Where do you want to go today? Never mind, you want to upgrade to WinX; stop whining, we know you want it!" That said, there are far more dangerous MS FUD campaigns, I think. - The final question is quite different to your original claim, IIRC; but yes, Win10 IMNSHO falls squarely under "malware," and thus I'm not using it. Not even using Windows, FWIW. Even better, the GWX fiasco helped me persuade people to move off Windows altogether.
sctb 9y ago

pjmlp 9y ago

PC are now a commodity in most countries (sadly not in all), so unless there is a very compelling reason to upgrade, no one among non technical users will do it, even less when the new OS isn't compatible with their existing software.