3 ms·

I have to ask again, why are machines that are not even desktop computers running windows?

by noobermin 10y ago

miguelrochefort 10y ago
Never heard of Windows Server, Windows IoT, Windows Mobile?
1ba9115454 10y ago
Computers need an OS to be useful and windows is an OS.
- noobermin 10y ago
  How much "usefulness" does a microwave require? Or a airport terminal that displays flights?
  - kbart 10y ago
    If you want to do that from scratch on a general purpose MCU and expect it work reliably 24/7/365 -- the answer is hell lots. Disclaimer: I'm an embedded system engineer.
    - Piskvorrr 10y ago
      Well...even then (especially then!) Windows is not the right platform for this, I would say. Too many moving parts and stuff - one would have thunk that the GWX popups were enough of an disincentive.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - pcr0 10y ago
    The microwave picture was a joke. As for airport/train station displays, I think early displays were LED matrices running on custom hardware + OS. I suppose just hooking up an LCD flatscreen to an embedded windows computer displaying a webpage allowed for easier maintenance and richer content.
    - noobermin 10y ago
      I missed that part, sort of just scanned through the images. I'm actually chuckling a little right now.
  - pavel_lishin 10y ago
    How much support do you want to do for an airport terminal? How much do you want to pay for it? You can either pay for a Windows license, or you can hire someone to write an OS from scratch. (You can also use a different OS, but then - again - you have to pay for someone to support and maintain it.)
    - noobermin 10y ago
      My point is they have to then pay $300 per terminal now. You don't avoid the cost you thought you saved on in the long run. I am not making the point that anyone should write their own OS, that would be worse from a security perspective. I think though that there is a market for a stripped down OS that has less moving parts.
      - Piskvorrr 10y ago
        Nope. Just nuke it from orbit and repave with a clean image: cheaper, faster and safer. Those things are essentially thin clients, there is zero valuable data on them.
  - Piskvorrr 10y ago
    Not much. I've seen the same thing (transit departures) provided by a locked down, CD-booting, ramdisk-only Puppy Linux (of all the possible distros! Found out from its distinctive boot sequence messages). Since the functionality was essentially "bring up the display and network, then point a kiosk browser to an auto-refreshing URL", there was no need for the other five million extra features that come mandatory with Windows (which probably would have been XP or XP Embedded). That's not something you'd need a Linux hacker for - just configure the distro _once_, all the remaining work is webdesign.
arien 10y ago
Old Server versions of Windows were also affected. Could be what a lot of these service companies were running on.
- glindhol 10y ago
  One of the pictures from the blogpost does show a bsod'ed airport terminal running Windows NT4.
creepydata 10y ago
Because the Windows family of OSes includes more than just desktop OSes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_IoT https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_IoT https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Server https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Server
kbart 10y ago
Windows (I assume non Mobile or CE) is a general purposes OS that's easy to configure and (mostly) runs out-of-a-box. Linux (even more so RTOS or some obscure, niche OS), on the other hand, requires more knowledge to be configured, launched and administrated what leads to increase cost. Nobody wants to hire Linux hacker to administer vending machines when it can be done by anyone with minimal technical skills using mouse, keyboard and a phone to call tech support center. Most of ATM's and cash registers still use Windows XP for the same reason.
6d6b73 10y ago
Because a lot of "developers" only know one OS. I've seen places trying to run a fuel cell power station controllers on Windows.. Fortunately it was fairly easy to explain to them why this is a bad idea :)
w8rbt 10y ago
Lots of printers and printer controllers run embedded Windows. I was just experimenting with a Ricoh 8100s controller last week. People tend to forget that Microsoft was founded as a systems software company. For a long time, that's all they did. Then, later came office apps, Internet Explorer, Hotmail, etc.

I have to ask again, why are machines that are not even desktop computers running windows?

miguelrochefort 10y ago

Never heard of Windows Server, Windows IoT, Windows Mobile?

1ba9115454 10y ago

Computers need an OS to be useful and windows is an OS.

noobermin 10y ago
How much "usefulness" does a microwave require? Or a airport terminal that displays flights?
- kbart 10y ago
  If you want to do that from scratch on a general purpose MCU and expect it work reliably 24/7/365 -- the answer is hell lots. Disclaimer: I'm an embedded system engineer.
  - Piskvorrr 10y ago
    Well...even then (especially then!) Windows is not the right platform for this, I would say. Too many moving parts and stuff - one would have thunk that the GWX popups were enough of an disincentive.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- pcr0 10y ago
  The microwave picture was a joke. As for airport/train station displays, I think early displays were LED matrices running on custom hardware + OS. I suppose just hooking up an LCD flatscreen to an embedded windows computer displaying a webpage allowed for easier maintenance and richer content.
  - noobermin 10y ago
    I missed that part, sort of just scanned through the images. I'm actually chuckling a little right now.
- pavel_lishin 10y ago
  How much support do you want to do for an airport terminal? How much do you want to pay for it? You can either pay for a Windows license, or you can hire someone to write an OS from scratch. (You can also use a different OS, but then - again - you have to pay for someone to support and maintain it.)
  - noobermin 10y ago
    My point is they have to then pay $300 per terminal now. You don't avoid the cost you thought you saved on in the long run. I am not making the point that anyone should write their own OS, that would be worse from a security perspective. I think though that there is a market for a stripped down OS that has less moving parts.
    - Piskvorrr 10y ago
      Nope. Just nuke it from orbit and repave with a clean image: cheaper, faster and safer. Those things are essentially thin clients, there is zero valuable data on them.
- Piskvorrr 10y ago
  Not much. I've seen the same thing (transit departures) provided by a locked down, CD-booting, ramdisk-only Puppy Linux (of all the possible distros! Found out from its distinctive boot sequence messages). Since the functionality was essentially "bring up the display and network, then point a kiosk browser to an auto-refreshing URL", there was no need for the other five million extra features that come mandatory with Windows (which probably would have been XP or XP Embedded). That's not something you'd need a Linux hacker for - just configure the distro _once_, all the remaining work is webdesign.

arien 10y ago

Old Server versions of Windows were also affected. Could be what a lot of these service companies were running on.

glindhol 10y ago
One of the pictures from the blogpost does show a bsod'ed airport terminal running Windows NT4.

creepydata 10y ago

Because the Windows family of OSes includes more than just desktop OSes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_IoT https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_IoT https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Server https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Server

kbart 10y ago

Windows (I assume non Mobile or CE) is a general purposes OS that's easy to configure and (mostly) runs out-of-a-box. Linux (even more so RTOS or some obscure, niche OS), on the other hand, requires more knowledge to be configured, launched and administrated what leads to increase cost. Nobody wants to hire Linux hacker to administer vending machines when it can be done by anyone with minimal technical skills using mouse, keyboard and a phone to call tech support center. Most of ATM's and cash registers still use Windows XP for the same reason.

6d6b73 10y ago

Because a lot of "developers" only know one OS. I've seen places trying to run a fuel cell power station controllers on Windows.. Fortunately it was fairly easy to explain to them why this is a bad idea :)

w8rbt 10y ago

Lots of printers and printer controllers run embedded Windows. I was just experimenting with a Ricoh 8100s controller last week. People tend to forget that Microsoft was founded as a systems software company. For a long time, that's all they did. Then, later came office apps, Internet Explorer, Hotmail, etc.