4 ms·

So no more cows on farms?

by tuna-piano 9y ago

jlebrech 9y ago
yes
- 6stringmerc 9y ago
  Oh, they fight back when they feel like it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catherine_O%27Leary https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catherine_O%27Leary
- kakarot 9y ago
  And why is that? To me it sounds like this is largely an emotional and not logical decision for you.
  - jlebrech 9y ago
    https://richarddawkins.net/2013/01/the-argument-for-veganism-from-a-scientific-and-moral-perspective-rather-than-from-beliefs/ https://richarddawkins.net/2013/01/the-argument-for-veganism...
    - kakarot 9y ago
      I respect Richard and I wanted to read this, but in his very first point... He claims we are not adapted for eating meat, then backpedals by saying we have adapted for eating meat since the Ice Age, then pretends like this trend can't continue He claims we aren't adapted for hunting meat, relying solely on physical features to back this claim and ignoring our mental capacity, specifically the capacity for organization and tool use. His 2nd point is "We don't need it to survive". No shit. We're omnivores. I couldn't continue because the first two points were clearly conjecture and one-sided and render the likelihood of the validity of the rest to be approaching zero. Would you like to explain your reasoning in your own words?
      - jlebrech 9y ago
        we oppress animals, and it's ok because it's a tradition?
        kakarot 9y ago
        Say my neighboorhood had a farm and each member of the community benefited from this farm, a few cows to provide milk, and dozens and dozens of chickens to provide eggs and occasional meat. There is ample space for the animals to roam, and they are shielded from the elements and predators. As a result of sustainable rationing, a family doesn't eat meat each night but maybe once a week or month. Do you truly consider this scenario oppressive?
        animal_dude 9y ago
        > Do you truly consider this scenario oppressive? Yes, because you have violated the free agency of animals and their own right to exist unmolested by humans. It's the treatment of sentient creatures as mere commodities, justifying the means for an end, that's the source of great calamity and suffering. Non-human persons aren't on this planet for the satisfaction of humans. To think so is to basically be stuck in Christian-inspired attitudes which are old and deprecated.
        kakarot 9y ago
        Animals violate the free agency of animals every single day when they eat them for food. The concept that using animals for any form of resource is oppressive, even if a fair bargain is struck and the animal's needs are met, is highly idealistic in it's own ways, even if they aren't related to Christian values. People have been cooperating with other animals for much, much longer than Christianity has been around. So yes, that notion is very, very old. I wouldn't say it is depreciated, however.
        animal_dude 9y ago
        > Animals violate the free agency of animals every single day when they eat them for food. Animals also commit infanticide and lick their own buttholes. What we do to animals is not cooperation. It's a holocaust.

So no more cows on farms?

jlebrech 9y ago

yes

6stringmerc 9y ago
Oh, they fight back when they feel like it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catherine_O%27Leary https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catherine_O%27Leary
kakarot 9y ago
And why is that? To me it sounds like this is largely an emotional and not logical decision for you.
- jlebrech 9y ago
  https://richarddawkins.net/2013/01/the-argument-for-veganism-from-a-scientific-and-moral-perspective-rather-than-from-beliefs/ https://richarddawkins.net/2013/01/the-argument-for-veganism...
  - kakarot 9y ago
    I respect Richard and I wanted to read this, but in his very first point... He claims we are not adapted for eating meat, then backpedals by saying we have adapted for eating meat since the Ice Age, then pretends like this trend can't continue He claims we aren't adapted for hunting meat, relying solely on physical features to back this claim and ignoring our mental capacity, specifically the capacity for organization and tool use. His 2nd point is "We don't need it to survive". No shit. We're omnivores. I couldn't continue because the first two points were clearly conjecture and one-sided and render the likelihood of the validity of the rest to be approaching zero. Would you like to explain your reasoning in your own words?
    - jlebrech 9y ago
      we oppress animals, and it's ok because it's a tradition?
      - kakarot 9y ago
        Say my neighboorhood had a farm and each member of the community benefited from this farm, a few cows to provide milk, and dozens and dozens of chickens to provide eggs and occasional meat. There is ample space for the animals to roam, and they are shielded from the elements and predators. As a result of sustainable rationing, a family doesn't eat meat each night but maybe once a week or month. Do you truly consider this scenario oppressive?
        animal_dude 9y ago
        > Do you truly consider this scenario oppressive? Yes, because you have violated the free agency of animals and their own right to exist unmolested by humans. It's the treatment of sentient creatures as mere commodities, justifying the means for an end, that's the source of great calamity and suffering. Non-human persons aren't on this planet for the satisfaction of humans. To think so is to basically be stuck in Christian-inspired attitudes which are old and deprecated.
        kakarot 9y ago
        Animals violate the free agency of animals every single day when they eat them for food. The concept that using animals for any form of resource is oppressive, even if a fair bargain is struck and the animal's needs are met, is highly idealistic in it's own ways, even if they aren't related to Christian values. People have been cooperating with other animals for much, much longer than Christianity has been around. So yes, that notion is very, very old. I wouldn't say it is depreciated, however.
        animal_dude 9y ago
        > Animals violate the free agency of animals every single day when they eat them for food. Animals also commit infanticide and lick their own buttholes. What we do to animals is not cooperation. It's a holocaust.