5 ms·

What's worse, and why: -Locking a dolphin up in "jail" or killing a cow/pig? -Locking the few dolphins up in "jails" or the billions of cows/pigs killed each

What's worse, and why: -Locking a dolphin up in "jail" or killing a cow/pig? -Locking the few dolphins up in "jails" or the billions of cows/pigs killed each year? I think the ethical inconsistencies with regards to animal treatment are huge, but also understandable. I don't know the answers, but the questions do bother me.

colordrops 9y ago
Several dimensions are in play when it comes to treatment of animals: * intelligence and potential for suffering * Duration of suffering * Endangered status * Usefulness as a human product * Ability of average human to empathize with species
wil421 9y ago
Cows are treated pretty fairly until the end. They are usually grass feed and graze until they fatten them up for slaughter. They have miles and miles of fields to roam. You can find pigs that are treated fairly or are "free range". Both of these animals have been domesticated and lives with humans for a couple thousand years. Both of these animals are slaughtered young so they aren't locked up for years and years. Putting an dolphin in a small pond and put to work all day doing tricks is horrible. Whales and dolphins belong in the open ocean where they can swim for miles and miles. They are not domesticated animals. My view is that if you have to put the animal in a cage to keep it, you shouldn't have them. The exception would be a fish tank with nothing exotic.
- maxxxxx 9y ago
  Most animals that are raised for meat are treated horribly. there is no way around that. I am not for dolphins being held captive but they have it much better than most cows, pigs or chickens.
  - wil421 9y ago
    I agree about chickens. My state is the chicken capital of the world. Those coops are so nasty you can start to smell them a mile away. The only way it will change is everyone buys organic or true free range. The costs are too expensive for me to buy all the time. I think Americans should rethink eating meat at most meals. I've not been able to do it regularly.
    - maxxxxx 9y ago
      Most people could reduce their meat consumption by 80% and not miss much.
    - animal_dude 9y ago
      > The only way it will change is everyone buys organic or true free range. The costs are too expensive for me to buy all the time Both of those terms are pretty meaningless, and their ineffectual enforcement makes them even less so. The solution isn't to humane-wash, it's to stop eating things that come out of chickens' anuses.
      - freeflight 9y ago
        The terms might be meaningless, but that still shouldn't stop you from sourcing your meat/poultry locally from a farmer where you can witness the living conditions of the animals yourself before buying. That way you are not only doing something healthy for yourself and the animals, it's also supporting the local economy in a meaningful way.
        animal_dude 9y ago
        > That way you are not only doing something healthy for yourself and the animals, it's also supporting the local economy in a meaningful way. There is nothing healthy about consuming animals. Not for humans, not for animals, not for this planet, not for anyone. And a similar "supporting the economy" justification was used in defense of slavery, which you're still supporting in another form.
        9y ago
- objclxt 9y ago
  > Cows are treated pretty fairly until the end [...] They have miles and miles of fields to roam. Except in many parts of the world where they are placed into barns for six months of the year. Or if they're used for veal.
- johndotsun 9y ago
  Have you ever been to a dairy?
- drjasonharrison 9y ago
  dairy cows: raped to be artificially inseminated, calf removed soon after birth. Repeat 5x (yearly). Send to hamburger factory. cattle: fattened in "concentrated animal feeding operations" pigs: artificially inseminated, separated from piglets, teath and tails cut, transported without climate control, food or water.
- animal_dude 9y ago
  > Cows are treated pretty fairly until the end. They are usually grass feed and graze until they fatten them up for slaughter. They have miles and miles of fields to roam. You can find pigs that are treated fairly or are "free range". This is a complete fabrication and utter logical fallacy.
sigzero 9y ago
Locking them up is worse. I don't eat dolphins. My ravenous appetite must be filled with the billions of cows/pigs killed each year!
jlos 9y ago
The dolphins at the Vancouver aquarium are deemed not releasable by the federal government due to injury or lack of ability to survive in the wild (e.g. Chester, the aquariums false killer whale was found at 2 months old and was not properly socialised). The aquarium is not a jail.
- drjasonharrison 9y ago
  It's a "country club" jail. It's not a public park. You can't just go in, or out, when you want to.
ams6110 9y ago
Killing animals for food is ethically justifiable. Humans like all life are part of the food chain, and that's just the way things are on this planet. Keeping an animal "jailed" purely for entertainment -- "worse." Nobody needs to see dolphins doing tricks in order to survive.
- tuna-piano 9y ago
  Nobody needs meat in order to survive either(in 2017 America/Canada). Meat is eaten purely for pleasure. In fact, there's some good arguments (potentially debatable) that eating animal products actually shortens lifespan! The exact opposite of needing meat to survive...
  - undersuit 9y ago
    No one needs plants to survive either, we could just eat a nutrient rich prokaryotic soup. >Meat is eaten purely for pleasure. So are plants. Do you know how delicious this apple is I'm eating right now?
    - zanny 9y ago
      This is a strawman. We care about animals because animals have nervous systems and a pain response. Plants have no analog - they cannot feel pain, and have no neurological system to indicate intelligence. Nothing feels pain when you cut off a tree branch. Something feels pain when you break off a lobsters claw or hit a dog. Additionally, the plants we do eat often evolved to produce food for us. Apple trees and other fruiting plants all evolved to be eaten, so the consumer distributes the seeds in stool. That apple is delicious because the tree had an evolutionary bias to make it delicious so you would eat it. We eat plenty of plants like herbs and cabbages not for that purpose (albeit we did breed cabbages to be mutant and tasty) but an apple is a terrible example of a plant we hurt by eating it.
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
      - 9y ago
recon517 9y ago
It does not have to be only one or another: one can both stop holding wild animals in captivity and also stop farming domestic animals for food. Just do your part in this (significantly lower your meat/dairy consumption and never go to zoos).

colordrops 9y ago

Several dimensions are in play when it comes to treatment of animals: * intelligence and potential for suffering * Duration of suffering * Endangered status * Usefulness as a human product * Ability of average human to empathize with species

wil421 9y ago

Cows are treated pretty fairly until the end. They are usually grass feed and graze until they fatten them up for slaughter. They have miles and miles of fields to roam. You can find pigs that are treated fairly or are "free range". Both of these animals have been domesticated and lives with humans for a couple thousand years. Both of these animals are slaughtered young so they aren't locked up for years and years. Putting an dolphin in a small pond and put to work all day doing tricks is horrible. Whales and dolphins belong in the open ocean where they can swim for miles and miles. They are not domesticated animals. My view is that if you have to put the animal in a cage to keep it, you shouldn't have them. The exception would be a fish tank with nothing exotic.

maxxxxx 9y ago
Most animals that are raised for meat are treated horribly. there is no way around that. I am not for dolphins being held captive but they have it much better than most cows, pigs or chickens.
- wil421 9y ago
  I agree about chickens. My state is the chicken capital of the world. Those coops are so nasty you can start to smell them a mile away. The only way it will change is everyone buys organic or true free range. The costs are too expensive for me to buy all the time. I think Americans should rethink eating meat at most meals. I've not been able to do it regularly.
  - maxxxxx 9y ago
    Most people could reduce their meat consumption by 80% and not miss much.
  - animal_dude 9y ago
    > The only way it will change is everyone buys organic or true free range. The costs are too expensive for me to buy all the time Both of those terms are pretty meaningless, and their ineffectual enforcement makes them even less so. The solution isn't to humane-wash, it's to stop eating things that come out of chickens' anuses.
    - freeflight 9y ago
      The terms might be meaningless, but that still shouldn't stop you from sourcing your meat/poultry locally from a farmer where you can witness the living conditions of the animals yourself before buying. That way you are not only doing something healthy for yourself and the animals, it's also supporting the local economy in a meaningful way.
      - animal_dude 9y ago
        > That way you are not only doing something healthy for yourself and the animals, it's also supporting the local economy in a meaningful way. There is nothing healthy about consuming animals. Not for humans, not for animals, not for this planet, not for anyone. And a similar "supporting the economy" justification was used in defense of slavery, which you're still supporting in another form.
        9y ago
objclxt 9y ago
> Cows are treated pretty fairly until the end [...] They have miles and miles of fields to roam. Except in many parts of the world where they are placed into barns for six months of the year. Or if they're used for veal.
johndotsun 9y ago
Have you ever been to a dairy?
drjasonharrison 9y ago
dairy cows: raped to be artificially inseminated, calf removed soon after birth. Repeat 5x (yearly). Send to hamburger factory. cattle: fattened in "concentrated animal feeding operations" pigs: artificially inseminated, separated from piglets, teath and tails cut, transported without climate control, food or water.
animal_dude 9y ago
> Cows are treated pretty fairly until the end. They are usually grass feed and graze until they fatten them up for slaughter. They have miles and miles of fields to roam. You can find pigs that are treated fairly or are "free range". This is a complete fabrication and utter logical fallacy.

sigzero 9y ago

Locking them up is worse. I don't eat dolphins. My ravenous appetite must be filled with the billions of cows/pigs killed each year!

jlos 9y ago

The dolphins at the Vancouver aquarium are deemed not releasable by the federal government due to injury or lack of ability to survive in the wild (e.g. Chester, the aquariums false killer whale was found at 2 months old and was not properly socialised). The aquarium is not a jail.

drjasonharrison 9y ago
It's a "country club" jail. It's not a public park. You can't just go in, or out, when you want to.

ams6110 9y ago

Killing animals for food is ethically justifiable. Humans like all life are part of the food chain, and that's just the way things are on this planet. Keeping an animal "jailed" purely for entertainment -- "worse." Nobody needs to see dolphins doing tricks in order to survive.

tuna-piano 9y ago
Nobody needs meat in order to survive either(in 2017 America/Canada). Meat is eaten purely for pleasure. In fact, there's some good arguments (potentially debatable) that eating animal products actually shortens lifespan! The exact opposite of needing meat to survive...
- undersuit 9y ago
  No one needs plants to survive either, we could just eat a nutrient rich prokaryotic soup. >Meat is eaten purely for pleasure. So are plants. Do you know how delicious this apple is I'm eating right now?
  - zanny 9y ago
    This is a strawman. We care about animals because animals have nervous systems and a pain response. Plants have no analog - they cannot feel pain, and have no neurological system to indicate intelligence. Nothing feels pain when you cut off a tree branch. Something feels pain when you break off a lobsters claw or hit a dog. Additionally, the plants we do eat often evolved to produce food for us. Apple trees and other fruiting plants all evolved to be eaten, so the consumer distributes the seeds in stool. That apple is delicious because the tree had an evolutionary bias to make it delicious so you would eat it. We eat plenty of plants like herbs and cabbages not for that purpose (albeit we did breed cabbages to be mutant and tasty) but an apple is a terrible example of a plant we hurt by eating it.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - 9y ago

recon517 9y ago

It does not have to be only one or another: one can both stop holding wild animals in captivity and also stop farming domestic animals for food. Just do your part in this (significantly lower your meat/dairy consumption and never go to zoos).