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I wouldn't question Siracusa's technical chops, he's definitely earned them. He's intimately familiar with Objective-C and its history. As for your second clai

by boucher 16y ago

I wouldn't question Siracusa's technical chops, he's definitely earned them. He's intimately familiar with Objective-C and its history. As for your second claim, I really don't follow. Memory protection has nothing to do with garbage collection in that quote. He's talking about protected/per process address spaces.

glhaynes 16y ago
I think protomyth is saying that Siracusa's mistake is in assuming that GC is really that important... the "classic" Mac experience was considerably and noticeably worse for not having protected memory. Many even "average" users understood that their Mac didn't have protected memory and so application crashes could often bring down the whole system, thus they clamored for protected memory. There's absolutely no such outcry, though, among Mac OS X or iOS users for widespread use of garbage collection, and why would there be? In general, Mac/iOS users think of their apps as being more pleasant to use than those on other systems already. I think Siracusa's mistake is in assuming that just because a managed system is inevitable (how much retain/release do you think will be done in 25 years? obviously nearly none) that this means that the benefits of GC are so great as to be a make-or-break... in actuality, the benefit of GC in practice seems to be more on the order of having a nice framework or two built-in.
- protomyth 16y ago
  Yeah, I wrote way too fast and don't like to edit after someone has already commented. I just don't get that is as important as protected memory in the original OS. It just struct me as so out of touch with the how memory is handled by cocoa programmers and the evolution of the platform. I like the new GC, but it is not a quantum leap above the retain/release rules. Particularly with the advent of generated getters and setters. I think he is checking the "spec sheet" and not getting the whole story.
- dkarl 16y ago
  There are entire categories of applications in the app store that are plagued by crashes. Check out the Netflix applications; I just went to the app store to buy one, and they all have 2.5-3 stars. Check the reviews and you see a ton of one star reviews saying "Crashes constantly," "Crashes," "Useless," "Crashes every time you do X." These are popular commercial apps in what I presume is a pretty popular category of apps. It wasn't the first time I searched for an iPhone app and found a bunch of $2 and $3 paid apps with tons of stability complaints. Actually I felt quite lucky to find one lone Netflix app with a 4-star rating. No point in comparing features or reviews; I'll take the one that doesn't crash constantly.

by boucher 16y ago

glhaynes 16y ago

I think protomyth is saying that Siracusa's mistake is in assuming that GC is really that important... the "classic" Mac experience was considerably and noticeably worse for not having protected memory. Many even "average" users understood that their Mac didn't have protected memory and so application crashes could often bring down the whole system, thus they clamored for protected memory. There's absolutely no such outcry, though, among Mac OS X or iOS users for widespread use of garbage collection, and why would there be? In general, Mac/iOS users think of their apps as being more pleasant to use than those on other systems already. I think Siracusa's mistake is in assuming that just because a managed system is inevitable (how much retain/release do you think will be done in 25 years? obviously nearly none) that this means that the benefits of GC are so great as to be a make-or-break... in actuality, the benefit of GC in practice seems to be more on the order of having a nice framework or two built-in.

protomyth 16y ago
Yeah, I wrote way too fast and don't like to edit after someone has already commented. I just don't get that is as important as protected memory in the original OS. It just struct me as so out of touch with the how memory is handled by cocoa programmers and the evolution of the platform. I like the new GC, but it is not a quantum leap above the retain/release rules. Particularly with the advent of generated getters and setters. I think he is checking the "spec sheet" and not getting the whole story.
dkarl 16y ago
There are entire categories of applications in the app store that are plagued by crashes. Check out the Netflix applications; I just went to the app store to buy one, and they all have 2.5-3 stars. Check the reviews and you see a ton of one star reviews saying "Crashes constantly," "Crashes," "Useless," "Crashes every time you do X." These are popular commercial apps in what I presume is a pretty popular category of apps. It wasn't the first time I searched for an iPhone app and found a bunch of $2 and $3 paid apps with tons of stability complaints. Actually I felt quite lucky to find one lone Netflix app with a 4-star rating. No point in comparing features or reviews; I'll take the one that doesn't crash constantly.