5 ms·

I think it's funny how we never act so selflessly in our entire lifes, but expect investors, which are people that made their career goal to be good at making m

by nvivo 9y ago

I think it's funny how we never act so selflessly in our entire lifes, but expect investors, which are people that made their career goal to be good at making more money, to suddenly grow this moral guideline and be worse at their job just for the greater good.

icebraining 9y ago
Such a small post, so many strange ideas: 1) That choosing investment over dividends must be a selfless act that makes one worse at their job (rather than simply a different option, possibly even more lucrative). 2) That "we" (who?) don't make life choices for selfless reasons, when it's plainly obvious that many do. 3) The idea that investors don't have a moral guideline AND that that's somehow acceptable. I didn't downvote you, by the way.
- stupidhn 9y ago
  >That choosing investment over dividends must be a selfless act that makes one worse at their job (rather than simply a different option, possibly even more lucrative). This implies that they can't do both investing and paying dividends at the same time. What leads you to believe investment by F isn't sufficient?
  - icebraining 9y ago
    I have absolutely no opinion on the investment choices by Ford, you should ask legitster about that.
- nvivo 9y ago
  I should have been more clear, but I think people here are reading too much from I said. It's useless to try to repair it, but I just want to explain what I intended to say. First, I wasn't implying investors are bad people. In fact, I tried to imply the opposite. What I meant was that a lot of people (at least people I know) blame companies for making decisions that cut jobs, and investors for pushing in these directions. But at the same time, nobody is so selfless in their own life decisions in order to sacrifice their careers for someone they don't know. In fact, most people will consciously decide to earn more and make their lives better even if that means other people will lose their jobs. For example, I doubt any software developer will ever change careers just because the software he works on will cause half of the sales team to be fired. That's what I mean by people not being so selfless in their own life decisions. But when it comes to losing their own jobs, it's common to hear people say that companies or investors could decide take the loss, earn less and keep these jobs, like the decision was a choice between saving lives or killing puppies for 10 cents more, and someone is just too greedy. So, by "expecting investors to grow this moral guideline", I didn't mean they don't have a moral guideline. I meant people expect a much higher moral guideline that would make them sacrifice themselves in favor of the greater good, while other people don't actually do it themselves.
CydeWeys 9y ago
> I think it's funny how we never act so selflessly in our entire lifes That is some serious projection there. Most people spend most of their lives not acting selfishly. If corporations acted with the kindness that individual people have for each other then the world would be much different.
- TeMPOraL 9y ago
  Most people don't go out of their way to act selfishly on purpose. But they still primarily care about their own and ignore their impact on those who they don't know.
  - wordupmaking 9y ago
    Same answer, speak for yourself and the people you see in your daily life, because this does not match my experience. Where I live, if you find a scarf on the ground, you put it in a clean, well visible spot nearby, so the person who lost it can easily see it if they come by again. I also see people who are going through a heavy door sometimes turn a bit to see if there's someone behind them, lest they get their face smashed by said door. I won't say that's not selfish though; some people would trade 3 seconds of their time here and there gladly for treating others like they would like to be treated. It's swapping time and/or money for less tangible but very valuable "things". But incidentally, this whole "selfish" stuff is kind of a red herring anyway; OP was talking about investors being short-sighted and "paranoid", not investors being selfish. You may say that's the same thing, but I'd disagree, I'd say people "keeping their more to receive their less" isn't people being selfish, it's more like getting stuck in a local optimum. Locally, that's great, globally, that's having lost.
  - Retric 9y ago
    People constantly act outside of their best interests. Holding a door open for a few seconds longer for someone you don't know is not a selfish habit. So yea, people do some things in their own best interest, but the norms are hardly 100% in either direction. Yet, somehow companies are expected to be ruthlessly selfish in all areas.
accountyaccount 9y ago
This is a strange comment. I think many of us do a lot in the best interest of customers, whether or not it's the most profitable option. There's always a financial element involved, but I don't think it's a matter of "selflessness" to decide to put your customers and employees first and figure out how to make everything else work around that.
maxxxxx 9y ago
Corporations pretty much state openly that their only goal is their own self-interest and nothing else. They act like psychopaths. For most people such behavior is not socially acceptable.
- golergka 9y ago
  > Corporations pretty much state openly that their only goal is their own self-interest and nothing else. They act like psychopaths. Psychopaths are pretty often not acting in their own self-interest - they're screwing themselves in long-term to get short-term gains. A person who acts in their own self-interest is usually an upstanding member of society with perfect reputation. It's very rare for an actual, diagnosable psychopath to pull off something like that.
  - maxxxxx 9y ago
    Let's clarify: "perceived self interest". You can only act on what you think at the time is right. You may be right or wrong, only the future shows. That's true for everyone, corporations, psychopaths and anybody else
    - golergka 9y ago
      Then people are always acting according their perceived self interest - just some of them are more interested in perceived moral values than others.
      - maxxxxx 9y ago
        Correct.

by nvivo 9y ago

icebraining 9y ago

Such a small post, so many strange ideas: 1) That choosing investment over dividends must be a selfless act that makes one worse at their job (rather than simply a different option, possibly even more lucrative). 2) That "we" (who?) don't make life choices for selfless reasons, when it's plainly obvious that many do. 3) The idea that investors don't have a moral guideline AND that that's somehow acceptable. I didn't downvote you, by the way.

stupidhn 9y ago
>That choosing investment over dividends must be a selfless act that makes one worse at their job (rather than simply a different option, possibly even more lucrative). This implies that they can't do both investing and paying dividends at the same time. What leads you to believe investment by F isn't sufficient?
- icebraining 9y ago
  I have absolutely no opinion on the investment choices by Ford, you should ask legitster about that.
nvivo 9y ago
I should have been more clear, but I think people here are reading too much from I said. It's useless to try to repair it, but I just want to explain what I intended to say. First, I wasn't implying investors are bad people. In fact, I tried to imply the opposite. What I meant was that a lot of people (at least people I know) blame companies for making decisions that cut jobs, and investors for pushing in these directions. But at the same time, nobody is so selfless in their own life decisions in order to sacrifice their careers for someone they don't know. In fact, most people will consciously decide to earn more and make their lives better even if that means other people will lose their jobs. For example, I doubt any software developer will ever change careers just because the software he works on will cause half of the sales team to be fired. That's what I mean by people not being so selfless in their own life decisions. But when it comes to losing their own jobs, it's common to hear people say that companies or investors could decide take the loss, earn less and keep these jobs, like the decision was a choice between saving lives or killing puppies for 10 cents more, and someone is just too greedy. So, by "expecting investors to grow this moral guideline", I didn't mean they don't have a moral guideline. I meant people expect a much higher moral guideline that would make them sacrifice themselves in favor of the greater good, while other people don't actually do it themselves.

CydeWeys 9y ago

> I think it's funny how we never act so selflessly in our entire lifes That is some serious projection there. Most people spend most of their lives not acting selfishly. If corporations acted with the kindness that individual people have for each other then the world would be much different.

TeMPOraL 9y ago
Most people don't go out of their way to act selfishly on purpose. But they still primarily care about their own and ignore their impact on those who they don't know.
- wordupmaking 9y ago
  Same answer, speak for yourself and the people you see in your daily life, because this does not match my experience. Where I live, if you find a scarf on the ground, you put it in a clean, well visible spot nearby, so the person who lost it can easily see it if they come by again. I also see people who are going through a heavy door sometimes turn a bit to see if there's someone behind them, lest they get their face smashed by said door. I won't say that's not selfish though; some people would trade 3 seconds of their time here and there gladly for treating others like they would like to be treated. It's swapping time and/or money for less tangible but very valuable "things". But incidentally, this whole "selfish" stuff is kind of a red herring anyway; OP was talking about investors being short-sighted and "paranoid", not investors being selfish. You may say that's the same thing, but I'd disagree, I'd say people "keeping their more to receive their less" isn't people being selfish, it's more like getting stuck in a local optimum. Locally, that's great, globally, that's having lost.
- Retric 9y ago
  People constantly act outside of their best interests. Holding a door open for a few seconds longer for someone you don't know is not a selfish habit. So yea, people do some things in their own best interest, but the norms are hardly 100% in either direction. Yet, somehow companies are expected to be ruthlessly selfish in all areas.

accountyaccount 9y ago

This is a strange comment. I think many of us do a lot in the best interest of customers, whether or not it's the most profitable option. There's always a financial element involved, but I don't think it's a matter of "selflessness" to decide to put your customers and employees first and figure out how to make everything else work around that.

maxxxxx 9y ago

Corporations pretty much state openly that their only goal is their own self-interest and nothing else. They act like psychopaths. For most people such behavior is not socially acceptable.

golergka 9y ago
> Corporations pretty much state openly that their only goal is their own self-interest and nothing else. They act like psychopaths. Psychopaths are pretty often not acting in their own self-interest - they're screwing themselves in long-term to get short-term gains. A person who acts in their own self-interest is usually an upstanding member of society with perfect reputation. It's very rare for an actual, diagnosable psychopath to pull off something like that.
- maxxxxx 9y ago
  Let's clarify: "perceived self interest". You can only act on what you think at the time is right. You may be right or wrong, only the future shows. That's true for everyone, corporations, psychopaths and anybody else
  - golergka 9y ago
    Then people are always acting according their perceived self interest - just some of them are more interested in perceived moral values than others.
    - maxxxxx 9y ago
      Correct.