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I've been keeping tabs on Assange's position over the years; from skipping bail, to entering the embassy, to the sporadic statements from Sweden, Britain, Ecuad

I've been keeping tabs on Assange's position over the years; from skipping bail, to entering the embassy, to the sporadic statements from Sweden, Britain, Ecuador and Assange. From descriptions of Sweden's strict laws around rape (misunderstanding of which caused the whole "rape capital of Europe" idiocy), to the statute of limitations running out on some of the allegations, and so on. At no point have I ever seen any mention of Russia in general, or Putin in particular, in anything related to Assange. The closest would probably Assange's assistance to Snowden in Hong Kong, who eventually went on to seek asylum in Russia. I felt the need to comment, since your "obvious" assertion took me so completely by surprise. I honestly have no idea how someone could come to such a conclusion. I'm in the UK (same as Assange!); maybe where you are (the US?) the media is insert its own narrative?

crdoconnor 9y ago
It's the US military and intelligence communities. They hate Russia a passion. This manifests in all sorts of odd ways, the most ridiculous of which was this: https://theintercept.com/2016/12/31/russia-hysteria-infects-washpost-again-false-story-about-hacking-u-s-electric-grid/ https://theintercept.com/2016/12/31/russia-hysteria-infects-...
- accountyaccount 9y ago
  The Russian government has been loosely tied with killing journalists and other opponents while Putin may also be amassing the largest fortune on the planet, so I don't think it's entirely unfounded.
  - grandalf 9y ago
    > The Russian government has been loosely tied Keep in mind that there is a massive propaganda campaign being done by the US to make Americans think Putin is evil. Chances are, Putin is no more evil than any US president. Keep in mind that even the most ostensibly intelligent, reasonable, and articulate president in memory, Barack Obama, happily accelerated the campaign to convict journalists under the espionage act and ramped up drone executions abroad. My point is that the US may legitimately consider Russia an adversary based on geopolitical realities (scarce resources, etc.) but none of this means Putin is more evil than a US president. In the US there is some degree of public consent required for military action and foreign policy, and the best way to make this happen is to create a moral argument. So of course the leaders of all nations the US considers adversaries are framed as evil. But this is just meant to help achieve democratic consent, no serious policy thinkers actually believe it.
    - accountyaccount 9y ago
      Not saying the US presidents are innocent by any means, but as far as I know they haven't been suspected of killing American journalists or political opponents. Propaganda or not, anti-Putin Russians have a bit of a track record of untimely death.
      - grandalf 9y ago
        > killing ... political opponents Uh, what are terrorists if not political opponents? Killing people who are deemed to hold certain beliefs without any judicial process linking them to specific criminal activity is simply killing political opponents. This follows from the adage that war is politics with guns. I also do not draw a major distinction between attempting to prosecute American journalists under the espionage act and simply having them killed. Arguably prosecuting them creates at least the same kind of chilling effect on journalism as a whole as murdering them does, and both leaders have the same goal of quelling dissent and intimidating reporters.
        accountyaccount 9y ago
        >I also do not draw a major distinction between attempting to prosecute American journalists under the espionage act and simply having them killed I'm no expert, but _attempting_ to prosecute and actually killing is probably a worthwhile distinction.
        grandalf 9y ago
        > I'm no expert, but _attempting_ to prosecute and actually killing is probably a worthwhile distinction. You're being too charitable. Both have the same intent. The more asymmetrically powerful the ruler is, the less lethal the threat needs to be to create a chilling effect. For example, rival gang members (with power parity) must kill each-other because they lack other mechanisms of coercion and must play their only card in the moment. Creating martyrs is always sub-optimal compared to catching and incarcerating "criminals" or forcing compliance by the threat of capture or alienation/ostracism. As a thought experiment, which state has stronger control over its citizens, Russia or Singapore?
  - tunap 9y ago
    One could easily substitute Russia with US and Putin with Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama and now Trump; sans "largest". Also, see Berlusconi for fairness.
    - accountyaccount 9y ago
      For like 75% of things, yes — that substitution is completely apt. But there's some evidence that Putin pushes things a bit further that doesn't seem to be borne purely of propaganda.
  - chriswarbo 9y ago
    > I don't think it's entirely unfounded. What don't you think is entirely unfounded? Russia/Assange connections, or anti-Russia stories in the media? While I agree with your characterisation of Russia and Putin, it doesn't offer any support ("founding"?) for either of these, other than as an ad hominem which can be applied to lots of countries/heads-of-state.
    - accountyaccount 9y ago
      Oh sorry, I meant the intelligence community's disdain for Russia. I realize our ethical high ground is probably like, one stair higher than Russia at best.
mattmanser 9y ago
This is the context (with a reply from the man himself): https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/5n58sm/i_am_julian_assange_founder_of_wikileaks_ask_me/dc8phg7/ https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/5n58sm/i_am_julian_as... It has been reported in the UK too. I've certainly seen the allegations reported in the Guardian, for example.
- pryce 9y ago
  Thank you; this was largely what I was referring to. I find it deeply troubling that Assange appears to conveniently misunderstand the implications made at him: that he is acting as a willing tool of the Putin administration - not an accusation of publishing falsified documents (although i'll be surprised if it doesn't come to that), but by becoming a mouthpiece for the Kremlin to publish stolen information to advance their anti-democratic interests. Leaks are important and valuable because they empower democratic voters to make informed choices. Wikileaks repeated derision of leaks since the election of President Trump has been particularly jarring. Leaks -and by this I mean ethically motivated ones, such as Chelsea Mannings- are an important protection mechanism in a democracy; and having a place to publish these is important; which is why I donated to wikileaks several years ago, around the time credit card companies began refusing their donations. Supporting ethically motivated leaks to uncover wrongdoing is not at all the same thing as supporting a mouthpiece for a foreign regime that steals information and regularly murders journalists. The values that motivate me to support journalism are the ones that have prevented me from supporting Assange over the last couple of years.
_pmf_ 9y ago
> I honestly have no idea how someone could come to such a conclusion. The Assange-Russia connection is a construct employed by the Democrats to counter the eventual fall-out when their Russian story deflates. (I.e. instead of standing there like complete morons, they can say "well, it has been Assange after all, but he has been controlled by Russia".)
seppin 9y ago
> At no point have I ever seen any mention of Russia in general, or Putin in particular, in anything related to Assange. He had a TV show on Russia Today..

crdoconnor 9y ago

It's the US military and intelligence communities. They hate Russia a passion. This manifests in all sorts of odd ways, the most ridiculous of which was this: https://theintercept.com/2016/12/31/russia-hysteria-infects-washpost-again-false-story-about-hacking-u-s-electric-grid/ https://theintercept.com/2016/12/31/russia-hysteria-infects-...

accountyaccount 9y ago
The Russian government has been loosely tied with killing journalists and other opponents while Putin may also be amassing the largest fortune on the planet, so I don't think it's entirely unfounded.
- grandalf 9y ago
  > The Russian government has been loosely tied Keep in mind that there is a massive propaganda campaign being done by the US to make Americans think Putin is evil. Chances are, Putin is no more evil than any US president. Keep in mind that even the most ostensibly intelligent, reasonable, and articulate president in memory, Barack Obama, happily accelerated the campaign to convict journalists under the espionage act and ramped up drone executions abroad. My point is that the US may legitimately consider Russia an adversary based on geopolitical realities (scarce resources, etc.) but none of this means Putin is more evil than a US president. In the US there is some degree of public consent required for military action and foreign policy, and the best way to make this happen is to create a moral argument. So of course the leaders of all nations the US considers adversaries are framed as evil. But this is just meant to help achieve democratic consent, no serious policy thinkers actually believe it.
  - accountyaccount 9y ago
    Not saying the US presidents are innocent by any means, but as far as I know they haven't been suspected of killing American journalists or political opponents. Propaganda or not, anti-Putin Russians have a bit of a track record of untimely death.
    - grandalf 9y ago
      > killing ... political opponents Uh, what are terrorists if not political opponents? Killing people who are deemed to hold certain beliefs without any judicial process linking them to specific criminal activity is simply killing political opponents. This follows from the adage that war is politics with guns. I also do not draw a major distinction between attempting to prosecute American journalists under the espionage act and simply having them killed. Arguably prosecuting them creates at least the same kind of chilling effect on journalism as a whole as murdering them does, and both leaders have the same goal of quelling dissent and intimidating reporters.
      - accountyaccount 9y ago
        >I also do not draw a major distinction between attempting to prosecute American journalists under the espionage act and simply having them killed I'm no expert, but _attempting_ to prosecute and actually killing is probably a worthwhile distinction.
        grandalf 9y ago
        > I'm no expert, but _attempting_ to prosecute and actually killing is probably a worthwhile distinction. You're being too charitable. Both have the same intent. The more asymmetrically powerful the ruler is, the less lethal the threat needs to be to create a chilling effect. For example, rival gang members (with power parity) must kill each-other because they lack other mechanisms of coercion and must play their only card in the moment. Creating martyrs is always sub-optimal compared to catching and incarcerating "criminals" or forcing compliance by the threat of capture or alienation/ostracism. As a thought experiment, which state has stronger control over its citizens, Russia or Singapore?
- tunap 9y ago
  One could easily substitute Russia with US and Putin with Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama and now Trump; sans "largest". Also, see Berlusconi for fairness.
  - accountyaccount 9y ago
    For like 75% of things, yes — that substitution is completely apt. But there's some evidence that Putin pushes things a bit further that doesn't seem to be borne purely of propaganda.
- chriswarbo 9y ago
  > I don't think it's entirely unfounded. What don't you think is entirely unfounded? Russia/Assange connections, or anti-Russia stories in the media? While I agree with your characterisation of Russia and Putin, it doesn't offer any support ("founding"?) for either of these, other than as an ad hominem which can be applied to lots of countries/heads-of-state.
  - accountyaccount 9y ago
    Oh sorry, I meant the intelligence community's disdain for Russia. I realize our ethical high ground is probably like, one stair higher than Russia at best.

mattmanser 9y ago

This is the context (with a reply from the man himself): https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/5n58sm/i_am_julian_assange_founder_of_wikileaks_ask_me/dc8phg7/ https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/5n58sm/i_am_julian_as... It has been reported in the UK too. I've certainly seen the allegations reported in the Guardian, for example.

pryce 9y ago
Thank you; this was largely what I was referring to. I find it deeply troubling that Assange appears to conveniently misunderstand the implications made at him: that he is acting as a willing tool of the Putin administration - not an accusation of publishing falsified documents (although i'll be surprised if it doesn't come to that), but by becoming a mouthpiece for the Kremlin to publish stolen information to advance their anti-democratic interests. Leaks are important and valuable because they empower democratic voters to make informed choices. Wikileaks repeated derision of leaks since the election of President Trump has been particularly jarring. Leaks -and by this I mean ethically motivated ones, such as Chelsea Mannings- are an important protection mechanism in a democracy; and having a place to publish these is important; which is why I donated to wikileaks several years ago, around the time credit card companies began refusing their donations. Supporting ethically motivated leaks to uncover wrongdoing is not at all the same thing as supporting a mouthpiece for a foreign regime that steals information and regularly murders journalists. The values that motivate me to support journalism are the ones that have prevented me from supporting Assange over the last couple of years.

_pmf_ 9y ago

> I honestly have no idea how someone could come to such a conclusion. The Assange-Russia connection is a construct employed by the Democrats to counter the eventual fall-out when their Russian story deflates. (I.e. instead of standing there like complete morons, they can say "well, it has been Assange after all, but he has been controlled by Russia".)

seppin 9y ago

> At no point have I ever seen any mention of Russia in general, or Putin in particular, in anything related to Assange. He had a TV show on Russia Today..