4 ms·

Apple selling unlocked iPhones in Canada

23 points by r7000 16y ago

jat850 16y ago
$549 for the 3GS. I absolutely shudder to think of what the iPhone 4 will sell for. I'm going to guess about $749.
- jasonlotito 16y ago
  Not sure the cost, but iirc, it was $880 after taxes for my wife's 3GS about 9 months ago. Actually, not sure how long ago, but it was a while back. Despite how it sounds, this isn't anything new. They've been doing this for some time. Edit: I should point out, I believe we also got the iPhone care thingy from Apple as well. Which makes more sense.
- ben1040 16y ago
  AT&T's "commitment free" price for the 16GB 3GS is $549, with a $599 price for the 16GB iPhone 4. Although I'm guessing there's still some carrier subsidy hidden in that price since commitment free != unlocked, and even if that phone is sold on eBay it's guaranteed to only generate revenue for AT&T and nobody else.
ErrantX 16y ago
They have been doing this in the UK for a while (http://store.apple.com/uk/browse/home/shop_iphone/family/iphone http://store.apple.com/uk/browse/home/shop_iphone/family/iph... £499-599). Is this a particularly revolutionary thing? Apple's move, however, will force the carriers to compete for the business of customers with unlocked iPhones, possibly even on a monthly basis. I don't buy that somehow. They are pretty expensive (at least here anyway) compared to the currently subsidized prices. Currently I see no real benefit of not getting a contract device for 18 months then getting the free upgrade. Customers will only need to buy a Subscriber Identity Module (SIM) or micro-SIM, which typically sell for about $10, to switch to a different carrier. What about data costs? I know you couldn't do that here because internet access costs would crucify you quickly.
- jasonlotito 16y ago
  > Is this a particularly revolutionary thing? No. They've been doing this for a while. Not sure why it's news now.
  - listic 16y ago
    It's still good to know how the things go this year, anyway. Especially for the folks who haven't been following the situation all along and/or live in very different parts of the world. For comparison: here in Russia 3GS now officially costs $961/1122 (29990/34990 RUB) for 16/32 GB. It launched in March [sic] I doubt that they will sell any significant amount; seems like a dead end for the operators.
- ugh 16y ago
  Flexibility and cheap calls from abroad. I don’t know much about the price structure in the US but in Germany there are cheaper options if you buy just the SIM. That phone must be payed somehow, that’s why you pay more every month when you have a subsidized phone. Now, that in itself wouldn’t be so bad, but your choices are seriously limited with a iPhone. What if I don’t need hundreds of minutes but want a real data flat rate? That’s not possible with an iPhone. And you can’t just pop in some cheapo prepaid SIM when traveling, you are forced to shoulder the roaming costs. That’s maybe not so important in the US but seriously sucks in Europe. Since the costs are the same – either higher monthly costs and a subsidized phone or lower monthly costs and a unsubsidized phone – I would always rather buy the unsubsidized phone.
  - ErrantX 16y ago
    What if I don’t need hundreds of minutes but want a real data flat rate? That’s not possible with an iPhone. Wow, yeh. I just checked into this and it seems in the UK, on O2, we get a great deal - basically "free internet" data for a 18 months (then you can get a free upgrade). Since the costs are the same Not sure that's true, depending on your needs. The unsubsidized phone + lower monthly cost + phone bill would be much larger for me than the current contract I have. Agreed, though, it would be nice to be able to pop in a foreign SIM when abroad (I actually have a SIM free bog standard phone for this exact reason)
sfard 16y ago
Although this is great for consumer choice, I shudder when I think of all the corporate heads at telecom companies thinking of how to screw customers on this. The phone becomes a sunk cost and companies can then screw us on a higher go-forward price for their service. This is especially true in Canada where the industry is practically a duopoly.
- paulgb 16y ago
  Things are actually starting to get better. There was some spectrum auctioned last year and recently a number of start-up carriers are starting to pop up. The government also lifted some foreign ownership limits on the carriers. Give it a few years for people's contracts to end and we should have a healthy telecom market.
DannoHung 16y ago
Has anyone ever tried to model the benefits of going with an unlocked, contract free phone over one tied to a specific carrier with a fixed contract? I know that a lot of people, here in particularl, find the notion of locked down hardware repugnant, but from a cost/benefit perspective, I have just not seen that much of a problem, personally. I mean, are there usage scenarios with an assumption that you will have continuous approximate service (for the purposes of the iPhone, that would be a voice and data plan) that are common where carrier lock-in is very costly?
- jokermatt999 16y ago
  This is just wild massing guessing on my part, but without vendor/hardware lock-in, wouldn't competition (and therefore service) be much better? As of now, there's several prohibitive costs to switching services due to having contract cancellation fees, requiring a new phone, not necessarily being able to transfer your data, etc. With an unlocked phone, you'd still have those contract cancellation fees, but it would be a much smoother process to switch. If it was easy enough to change to another carrier, carriers would most likely focus more on being more attractive than their competitors to try to entice customers to them. As it stands, it seems to me like few people would actually bother switching unless they were grossly unhappy with their service. However, I'll freely admit that I don't necessarily have data or experience to back this up. Am I on the right track here, or babbling aimlessly?
  - cwp 16y ago
    It seems that the elements are in place for some real competition in Canada: - all the major carriers support the iPhone - Apple is selling unlocked phones - you can get a voice/data plan without a contract if you have an unlocked phone - phone number portability works well I think it's possible to get unlocked Blackberry and Android phones too, but not sure. It's too early to tell if this will lead to lower prices and better service, but I'm optimistic.
- sorbits 16y ago
  With an unlocked phone you can resell it. I bought an unlocked iPhone 3GS in January and paid a premium, but I will probably sell it this summer, if I can get an unlocked iPhone 4G.
simonk 16y ago
I don't really see a big plus for this, we have 4 big GSM providers Rogers, Telus, Bell, and Wind Mobile. Wind Mobile works off a different spectrum so that doesn't help. Rogers, Telus, and Bell all have almost the exact same plans for the iPhone and if you don't buy the iPhone from them the monthly cost is usually higher not cheaper.
- turnersauce 16y ago
  The state of wireless in Canada is depressing, although slowly improving. The instant that Wind goes live in Victoria, I'm switching!
silversmith 16y ago
Interesting. Here in eastern europe, unlocked has always been the 'usual' way. Even now, telecos generally go for partnerships with established retailers rather than opening their own chains. Buying a subsidized phone is more of a "I'm already using operator X, might as well get the device cheaper" kind of deal.
ehnus 16y ago
Good stuff. I had my iPhone stolen a few months ago and I had to buy a replacement through my service provider (Rogers) as Apple wasn't selling them unlocked at the time. I think, if anything, this will help dispel the feeling I had at the time that I was getting screwed by my provider for the replacement phone cost even if it's actually not the case.

23 points by r7000 16y ago

jat850 16y ago

$549 for the 3GS. I absolutely shudder to think of what the iPhone 4 will sell for. I'm going to guess about $749.

jasonlotito 16y ago
Not sure the cost, but iirc, it was $880 after taxes for my wife's 3GS about 9 months ago. Actually, not sure how long ago, but it was a while back. Despite how it sounds, this isn't anything new. They've been doing this for some time. Edit: I should point out, I believe we also got the iPhone care thingy from Apple as well. Which makes more sense.
ben1040 16y ago
AT&T's "commitment free" price for the 16GB 3GS is $549, with a $599 price for the 16GB iPhone 4. Although I'm guessing there's still some carrier subsidy hidden in that price since commitment free != unlocked, and even if that phone is sold on eBay it's guaranteed to only generate revenue for AT&T and nobody else.

ErrantX 16y ago

They have been doing this in the UK for a while (http://store.apple.com/uk/browse/home/shop_iphone/family/iphone http://store.apple.com/uk/browse/home/shop_iphone/family/iph... £499-599). Is this a particularly revolutionary thing? Apple's move, however, will force the carriers to compete for the business of customers with unlocked iPhones, possibly even on a monthly basis. I don't buy that somehow. They are pretty expensive (at least here anyway) compared to the currently subsidized prices. Currently I see no real benefit of not getting a contract device for 18 months then getting the free upgrade. Customers will only need to buy a Subscriber Identity Module (SIM) or micro-SIM, which typically sell for about $10, to switch to a different carrier. What about data costs? I know you couldn't do that here because internet access costs would crucify you quickly.

jasonlotito 16y ago
> Is this a particularly revolutionary thing? No. They've been doing this for a while. Not sure why it's news now.
- listic 16y ago
  It's still good to know how the things go this year, anyway. Especially for the folks who haven't been following the situation all along and/or live in very different parts of the world. For comparison: here in Russia 3GS now officially costs $961/1122 (29990/34990 RUB) for 16/32 GB. It launched in March [sic] I doubt that they will sell any significant amount; seems like a dead end for the operators.
ugh 16y ago
Flexibility and cheap calls from abroad. I don’t know much about the price structure in the US but in Germany there are cheaper options if you buy just the SIM. That phone must be payed somehow, that’s why you pay more every month when you have a subsidized phone. Now, that in itself wouldn’t be so bad, but your choices are seriously limited with a iPhone. What if I don’t need hundreds of minutes but want a real data flat rate? That’s not possible with an iPhone. And you can’t just pop in some cheapo prepaid SIM when traveling, you are forced to shoulder the roaming costs. That’s maybe not so important in the US but seriously sucks in Europe. Since the costs are the same – either higher monthly costs and a subsidized phone or lower monthly costs and a unsubsidized phone – I would always rather buy the unsubsidized phone.
- ErrantX 16y ago
  What if I don’t need hundreds of minutes but want a real data flat rate? That’s not possible with an iPhone. Wow, yeh. I just checked into this and it seems in the UK, on O2, we get a great deal - basically "free internet" data for a 18 months (then you can get a free upgrade). Since the costs are the same Not sure that's true, depending on your needs. The unsubsidized phone + lower monthly cost + phone bill would be much larger for me than the current contract I have. Agreed, though, it would be nice to be able to pop in a foreign SIM when abroad (I actually have a SIM free bog standard phone for this exact reason)

sfard 16y ago

Although this is great for consumer choice, I shudder when I think of all the corporate heads at telecom companies thinking of how to screw customers on this. The phone becomes a sunk cost and companies can then screw us on a higher go-forward price for their service. This is especially true in Canada where the industry is practically a duopoly.

paulgb 16y ago
Things are actually starting to get better. There was some spectrum auctioned last year and recently a number of start-up carriers are starting to pop up. The government also lifted some foreign ownership limits on the carriers. Give it a few years for people's contracts to end and we should have a healthy telecom market.

DannoHung 16y ago

Has anyone ever tried to model the benefits of going with an unlocked, contract free phone over one tied to a specific carrier with a fixed contract? I know that a lot of people, here in particularl, find the notion of locked down hardware repugnant, but from a cost/benefit perspective, I have just not seen that much of a problem, personally. I mean, are there usage scenarios with an assumption that you will have continuous approximate service (for the purposes of the iPhone, that would be a voice and data plan) that are common where carrier lock-in is very costly?

jokermatt999 16y ago
This is just wild massing guessing on my part, but without vendor/hardware lock-in, wouldn't competition (and therefore service) be much better? As of now, there's several prohibitive costs to switching services due to having contract cancellation fees, requiring a new phone, not necessarily being able to transfer your data, etc. With an unlocked phone, you'd still have those contract cancellation fees, but it would be a much smoother process to switch. If it was easy enough to change to another carrier, carriers would most likely focus more on being more attractive than their competitors to try to entice customers to them. As it stands, it seems to me like few people would actually bother switching unless they were grossly unhappy with their service. However, I'll freely admit that I don't necessarily have data or experience to back this up. Am I on the right track here, or babbling aimlessly?
- cwp 16y ago
  It seems that the elements are in place for some real competition in Canada: - all the major carriers support the iPhone - Apple is selling unlocked phones - you can get a voice/data plan without a contract if you have an unlocked phone - phone number portability works well I think it's possible to get unlocked Blackberry and Android phones too, but not sure. It's too early to tell if this will lead to lower prices and better service, but I'm optimistic.
sorbits 16y ago
With an unlocked phone you can resell it. I bought an unlocked iPhone 3GS in January and paid a premium, but I will probably sell it this summer, if I can get an unlocked iPhone 4G.

simonk 16y ago

I don't really see a big plus for this, we have 4 big GSM providers Rogers, Telus, Bell, and Wind Mobile. Wind Mobile works off a different spectrum so that doesn't help. Rogers, Telus, and Bell all have almost the exact same plans for the iPhone and if you don't buy the iPhone from them the monthly cost is usually higher not cheaper.

turnersauce 16y ago
The state of wireless in Canada is depressing, although slowly improving. The instant that Wind goes live in Victoria, I'm switching!

silversmith 16y ago

Interesting. Here in eastern europe, unlocked has always been the 'usual' way. Even now, telecos generally go for partnerships with established retailers rather than opening their own chains. Buying a subsidized phone is more of a "I'm already using operator X, might as well get the device cheaper" kind of deal.

ehnus 16y ago

Good stuff. I had my iPhone stolen a few months ago and I had to buy a replacement through my service provider (Rogers) as Apple wasn't selling them unlocked at the time. I think, if anything, this will help dispel the feeling I had at the time that I was getting screwed by my provider for the replacement phone cost even if it's actually not the case.