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You are obviously entitled to your opinion and it might be that you've only seen people who are still learning to use vim, but to give little perspective from s

You are obviously entitled to your opinion and it might be that you've only seen people who are still learning to use vim, but to give little perspective from someone who has been using for little over two years. Movement: Moving around is a hassle at first, most people insist using arrows instead of hjkl, but even thous are slow and tedious. You get much more mileage from using w, e and b for jumping between words, but even thous get slow after a while and recently I've been using the f and t commands to Find and jump To places (characters) I want to. Obviously it requires some time to learn and I am by no means perfect, but I dare to say it is faster than scrolling and pointing with a mouse. Plugins: I don't really see how installing plugins is tedious, you just slap one of the managers into your ~/.vim/autoload (I use pathogen) and then rest you just clone to ~/.vim/bundle. Vim doesn't have build in plugin browser and one click install, like Atom does, but at least to me that is not a problem. Maybe it's because I don't use that many plugins, who knows. Tabs/buffers: These do take some time to get used to, but I wouldn't say they are any more clunky than your average editors tabs. Memorizing commands: At first it seems like insurmountable task since almost every key is a command and as you mentioned most plugins have their own commands, but truth is you don't need most of them to get started and as you use the tool (or at least thats how it was with me) you Google how to do something tedious faster and there is almost always a better method. As for the "file tree view", I don't know what that plugin is, but I can guess and I used something called NERDTree at start, but vim's build in :find command is pretty powerful at just finding what you need and now I use fzf which makes finding files even faster. Over all I get why you might dislike vim even without trying it (since most vim users constantly push their shitty editor (and dont get me wrong vim is shit, but it's least shit editor I've yet found)), but I suggest you try using it on a side project and see if you like it, don't install any plugins at first just try reading the documentation and making changes to the config as you go along. I bet you'd be surprised how much you'd enjoy it.

ruleabidinguser 9y ago
I've tried and learned vim and I'm very capable of navigating with it (I don't use marks but I use about everything else) and it is precisely good at one thing: being an editor. If you try to make it an IDE, I believe you're just using a bad IDE. It is only effective for me as a very lightweight editor for quickly making simple edits to a file. Why don't I like it as an IDE? * Second hand auto complete * Second hand project management * No debugger These are actually to me huge features and the third party support for each of them exists but doesn't touch the quality of implementation in a dedicated IDE. Not to mention it adds hours of extra work to getting started in an environment you don't already have configured. And frankly, you don't have to learn vim to recognize this.
- nextlevelwizard 9y ago
  If you need IDE then go with IDE. There are many programming tasks and languages that gain no benefit from IDE-ish things. For me auto complete works just fine and I don't know what project management means.
  - ruleabidinguser 9y ago
    The critical feature of auto complete is discovery, not saving a couple of seconds of typing (its always too slow for that anyways). Even if a plugin exists (which I dont think one does) which has auto complete with in line documentation and method/property details (pretty crucial to discovery), theres not a chance in hell it succeeds in making it presentable in the terminal. I think VSCode/atom fit in the nice space where you don't want huge, intensive projects, but you do want to do some real programming (aka you'll need this discovery and a good debugger).
    - nextlevelwizard 9y ago
      >real programming Ok :)
  - signal11 9y ago
    Language servers could solve this problem and let editors hook into a deeper source of understanding of what they're editing, without building in the functionality themselves. [1] Intro blog post: https://code.visualstudio.com/blogs/2016/06/27/common-language-protocol https://code.visualstudio.com/blogs/2016/06/27/common-langua... [2] http://langserver.org/ http://langserver.org/ - has a table of current implementations
vortico 9y ago
I used vim for 3 years until Sublime Text came out and found I get work done much faster with it. I used the jump feature (forgot what it's called, similar to AceJump on emacs), position stacks, search commands, etc. I installed and learned NERDTree (that's the name) and a buffer management plugin, but they took hours to get used to while editing and many more hours to configure my .vimrc to be somewhat sane. ST came along, and with some plugins, I was able to migrate very smoothly and was introduced to some new editing methods, like multicursors and the wonderful Ctrl-Shift-Up/Down commands for moving lines. No more sequences of characters to perform a common task! If ST was open source, there would be no need for a competing GUI text editor IMO.
- nextlevelwizard 9y ago
  If you feel like remembering vim's commands is a chore then it is not for you. For me they are reaction, I don't even think about chaining then together to accomplish my task. As for plugins I do not see the need for NERDTree or buffer management. At least for me searching (:find for files and :b for buffers) works perfectly fine and I dare say better/faster than file tree navigation. Multicursor is fun, but it can be achieved with a plugin in vim also, but I'd just make a macro for it. Moving lines up and down can be easily done with dd and p, so I don't see the issue here either. >competing GUI text editor There might be your problem for me using vim with tmux makes my life so much simpler than using gVim or other GUI editors.
- MarHoff 9y ago
  You just made my day! Didn't knew Ctrl-Shift-Up/Down how can I've been coding without!

ruleabidinguser 9y ago

I've tried and learned vim and I'm very capable of navigating with it (I don't use marks but I use about everything else) and it is precisely good at one thing: being an editor. If you try to make it an IDE, I believe you're just using a bad IDE. It is only effective for me as a very lightweight editor for quickly making simple edits to a file. Why don't I like it as an IDE? * Second hand auto complete * Second hand project management * No debugger These are actually to me huge features and the third party support for each of them exists but doesn't touch the quality of implementation in a dedicated IDE. Not to mention it adds hours of extra work to getting started in an environment you don't already have configured. And frankly, you don't have to learn vim to recognize this.

nextlevelwizard 9y ago
If you need IDE then go with IDE. There are many programming tasks and languages that gain no benefit from IDE-ish things. For me auto complete works just fine and I don't know what project management means.
- ruleabidinguser 9y ago
  The critical feature of auto complete is discovery, not saving a couple of seconds of typing (its always too slow for that anyways). Even if a plugin exists (which I dont think one does) which has auto complete with in line documentation and method/property details (pretty crucial to discovery), theres not a chance in hell it succeeds in making it presentable in the terminal. I think VSCode/atom fit in the nice space where you don't want huge, intensive projects, but you do want to do some real programming (aka you'll need this discovery and a good debugger).
  - nextlevelwizard 9y ago
    >real programming Ok :)
- signal11 9y ago
  Language servers could solve this problem and let editors hook into a deeper source of understanding of what they're editing, without building in the functionality themselves. [1] Intro blog post: https://code.visualstudio.com/blogs/2016/06/27/common-language-protocol https://code.visualstudio.com/blogs/2016/06/27/common-langua... [2] http://langserver.org/ http://langserver.org/ - has a table of current implementations

vortico 9y ago

I used vim for 3 years until Sublime Text came out and found I get work done much faster with it. I used the jump feature (forgot what it's called, similar to AceJump on emacs), position stacks, search commands, etc. I installed and learned NERDTree (that's the name) and a buffer management plugin, but they took hours to get used to while editing and many more hours to configure my .vimrc to be somewhat sane. ST came along, and with some plugins, I was able to migrate very smoothly and was introduced to some new editing methods, like multicursors and the wonderful Ctrl-Shift-Up/Down commands for moving lines. No more sequences of characters to perform a common task! If ST was open source, there would be no need for a competing GUI text editor IMO.

nextlevelwizard 9y ago
If you feel like remembering vim's commands is a chore then it is not for you. For me they are reaction, I don't even think about chaining then together to accomplish my task. As for plugins I do not see the need for NERDTree or buffer management. At least for me searching (:find for files and :b for buffers) works perfectly fine and I dare say better/faster than file tree navigation. Multicursor is fun, but it can be achieved with a plugin in vim also, but I'd just make a macro for it. Moving lines up and down can be easily done with dd and p, so I don't see the issue here either. >competing GUI text editor There might be your problem for me using vim with tmux makes my life so much simpler than using gVim or other GUI editors.
MarHoff 9y ago
You just made my day! Didn't knew Ctrl-Shift-Up/Down how can I've been coding without!