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Happens the world over, mate. Over on the other side of the planet in India, much fanfare and "nationalistic spirit" was expelled in banning funds from foreign

Happens the world over, mate. Over on the other side of the planet in India, much fanfare and "nationalistic spirit" was expelled in banning funds from foreign nations to NGOs (which may or may not be a bad thing). Then they turned around and surreptitiously passed a law allowing foreign funding for political parties (!). Such "nationalism" this. Similar stories are to be found on things like corruption/transparency/Biometric ID laws. Frankly this is democracy in its true self; the self-righteous religion appears to share more and more in terms of theology with Communism and erstwhile utopian systems. I can't wait to see this whole (world) system go down the gutters, and when people open their eyes to this language game.

TeMPOraL 9y ago
> Frankly this is democracy in its true self; That I would agree with, but... > I can't wait to see this whole (world) system go down the gutters, and when people open their eyes to this language game. I do hope this is hyperbolic. I personally like our global technological civilization; with all its injustices it's still better than what we had in the past. Also, I don't like wars, and I definitely don't want to find myself in one.
- ue_ 9y ago
  I don't think the parent commenter is referring to going back to what there was before; a Marxist who wants to hasten the revolution, for example, is not arguing for the stage of historical development before capitalism (feudalism), rather he is arguing for the abolishment of classes altogether. That is the charitable reading, anyway.
  - TeMPOraL 9y ago
    No, I don't think the parent really wants to go back to the way things were. But I argue against something different - I argue against revolutions itself. The two points I made could be restated like this: our civilization is at a very fragile stage and a big enough revolution now could kick us back into pre-industrial level and keep us there, since all the easily available sources of energy have been already mined and used up. That, and revolutions are bloody, and frankly, I don't want to die yet.
    - philipov 9y ago
      A revolution is like hiring a new team to build Version 2 of your product from scratch: they end up repeating all the old mistakes. Successful software development and science both require well-controlled experiments where the effects of the change can be traced back to a cause. They also require a management that is willing to iteratively rewrite core pieces of the software and release major versions with breaking changes. That is what is lacking in our government, and what fuels the frustration behind calls for revolution.
sametmax 9y ago
This is not democracy. Not one country in the world implement democracy. Some just enjoy a lot of freedom, and so they called themself democracy since it makes them feel good. But I've yet to see a country where the people use their power. Because that's what democracy is supposedly about : not just people having power, but taking the _responsibility_ to use power, over and over on the long run, to keep shaping their society. Right now we delegate it at best to a group of people that are already filtered by money or status, which is oligarchy. Not that I don't enjoy my life in the oligarchy, but it's not democracy.
- leppr 9y ago
  I'm sure (I hope) in a couple decades people will pity us the same way we pity Middle Age feudal systems' peasants, and laugh at us for being so easily brainwashed into thinking our states are actual democracies.
- TeMPOraL 9y ago
  This is a bit no-true-scotsman-ich. There is no perfect democracy in the world, and there will never be, because theoretical democracy is not a stable state when real humans are involved.
inapis 9y ago
> Then they turned around and surreptitiously passed a law allowing foreign funding for political parties Can you point me to a source where I can read more about it?

TeMPOraL 9y ago

> Frankly this is democracy in its true self; That I would agree with, but... > I can't wait to see this whole (world) system go down the gutters, and when people open their eyes to this language game. I do hope this is hyperbolic. I personally like our global technological civilization; with all its injustices it's still better than what we had in the past. Also, I don't like wars, and I definitely don't want to find myself in one.

ue_ 9y ago
I don't think the parent commenter is referring to going back to what there was before; a Marxist who wants to hasten the revolution, for example, is not arguing for the stage of historical development before capitalism (feudalism), rather he is arguing for the abolishment of classes altogether. That is the charitable reading, anyway.
- TeMPOraL 9y ago
  No, I don't think the parent really wants to go back to the way things were. But I argue against something different - I argue against revolutions itself. The two points I made could be restated like this: our civilization is at a very fragile stage and a big enough revolution now could kick us back into pre-industrial level and keep us there, since all the easily available sources of energy have been already mined and used up. That, and revolutions are bloody, and frankly, I don't want to die yet.
  - philipov 9y ago
    A revolution is like hiring a new team to build Version 2 of your product from scratch: they end up repeating all the old mistakes. Successful software development and science both require well-controlled experiments where the effects of the change can be traced back to a cause. They also require a management that is willing to iteratively rewrite core pieces of the software and release major versions with breaking changes. That is what is lacking in our government, and what fuels the frustration behind calls for revolution.

sametmax 9y ago

This is not democracy. Not one country in the world implement democracy. Some just enjoy a lot of freedom, and so they called themself democracy since it makes them feel good. But I've yet to see a country where the people use their power. Because that's what democracy is supposedly about : not just people having power, but taking the _responsibility_ to use power, over and over on the long run, to keep shaping their society. Right now we delegate it at best to a group of people that are already filtered by money or status, which is oligarchy. Not that I don't enjoy my life in the oligarchy, but it's not democracy.

leppr 9y ago
I'm sure (I hope) in a couple decades people will pity us the same way we pity Middle Age feudal systems' peasants, and laugh at us for being so easily brainwashed into thinking our states are actual democracies.
TeMPOraL 9y ago
This is a bit no-true-scotsman-ich. There is no perfect democracy in the world, and there will never be, because theoretical democracy is not a stable state when real humans are involved.

inapis 9y ago

> Then they turned around and surreptitiously passed a law allowing foreign funding for political parties Can you point me to a source where I can read more about it?