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My grandfather worked at Exxon Mobile for 60 years and retired around 1988 with a few million dollars in stock. I remember my dad saying he had about 3 Million
by dsmithatx 9y ago
My grandfather worked at Exxon Mobile for 60 years and retired around 1988 with a few million dollars in stock. I remember my dad saying he had about 3 Million in stock he purchased as his retirement plan.
He built a house and bought a couple of nice cars living on about 100,000 a year. About 12 years ago he had a heart attack and stroke and was bed ridden. 12 years of doctor bills and hospice ate through almost every dollar he saved.
My grandmother sold the house and now lives on her social security. Maybe people 60 should not be so fast to go spend their cash. He was 72 when he got sick and 84 this year when he finally passed away. If something happens to our grandmother there wont be a nice $3 million to cover 12 years of hospitalizations and surgeries.
- ransom1538 9y agoWhatever you save with your blood, sweat and tears (if you are lucky) will be blown on medical expenses. The trick is to convert to cash (literal), then give it to your wife, convert medical expenses to debt and die.
- FabHK 9y agoNote that what you say applies mostly in developing countries and maybe the USA, not in other developed countries, as far as I can tell.
- emodendroket 9y agoWell, the audience here is largely American and the story is about Americans, so I'm not sure this qualification was really needed.
- FabHK 9y agoTrue. Important to keep in mind though. And frugality (and excessive government austerity) has been a European problem, too.
- reustle 9y agoThe trick is to move to a country with proper healthcare
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- brianwawok 9y agoYou get fine healthcare for free when you are old in the US. You just gotta be broke first. So it's a fine line to work....
- justin66 9y agoAnyone who wants to test this assertion - that "fine healthcare" equal to what a wealthy retiree gets is available to all - should go to a nursing home that offers care for normal and purely medicare-supported patients. You don't have to study the situation really closely to get what I'm driving at. The patients will generally stay in separate areas. Just walk around and use your sense of smell.
- brianwawok 9y agoOr if you want actual truth, interview people at said missing home. Person A was rich, her 500k in savings was all spent to provide her care at a rate of 5k per month until it is gone. Person B had 100k to her name. She paid the nursing home 5k per month until it was gone. Then care is free until the money runs out. Person C had 0 money. They paid $0 from day 1. All three got the same medical care. All three got the same food. Maybe person A spring for a private room vs a shared room... But otherwise all would be the same. Nursing homes in general aren't great. Hopefully you can stay out of them. Eating well and exercising seem to help. If not, money won't do much.
- justin66 9y agoYou do not know what you are talking about at all. > Person B had 100k to her name. She paid the nursing home 5k per month until it was gone. Then care is free until the money runs out. > All three got the same medical care. All three got the same food. Maybe person A spring for a private room vs a shared room... But otherwise all would be the same. Person b experienced a lower standard of care once the money ran out. (I'm sure this isn't universally true, but in my experience it is. It's a free market...)
- csomar 9y agoIf everyone does that, then it no longer works.
- cvwright 9y agoThat's not necessarily the only option. Long-term care insurance claims to address this problem. (Whether it actually does or not, I'm not qualified to answer.)
- ams6110 9y agoBased on first hand experience... They will find a reason to not pay. Don't waste your money on LTC insurance.
- astrodust 9y agoAny time "insurance" is involved, be prepared to say goodbye to a good portion of your own health and sanity as you end up fighting with them over every little detail. Honestly, the best argument for single payer is all of that bullshit is gone.
- was_boring 9y agoI'm currently in a similar situation about what to do with an elderly relative with dementia who is currently in limbo after the last relative taking care of him died. The best moral option is to take guardianship and look after him. The best financial decision is to "divorce" from the situation and let the state take care of him so I have a chance of my wife and I being able to retire and saving for the kid's education expenses. It's a crazy system the U.S. has.
- martin1975 9y agoYou know the Golden rule, no? It's as true as 2+2=4.
- laughfactory 9y agoHe who has the gold makes the rules?
- navbaker 9y agoAre you leaving the proof to the reader as an exercise?
- martin1975 9y agoYou got it. When people ask for proof, I always laugh.. cause they already know it :). And if they don't, it's the easiest thing to prove. But with humans, I find that reminding them to do the right thing is a constant necessity...
- squozzer 9y agoA certain fictional character named O'Brien might have a problem with your assertion.
- duck 9y agoSome what relevant: http://www.zocalopublicsquare.org/2011/11/30/how-doctors-die/ideas/nexus/ http://www.zocalopublicsquare.org/2011/11/30/how-doctors-die...
- luckman212 9y agoCan you elaborate on this? How exactly do you convert medical expenses to debt? Who assumes these debts when you pass away?
- cko 9y agoUnfortunately, this is probably the best hack. Put assets in some kind of trust, then have the American taxpayer pay for those expensive last years. I am a pharmacist at a long term care pharmacy, and assisted livings in my area charge up to $8000 a month. Their model seems to be 1. Drain your assets until you qualify for Medicaid, 2. Move you from your private suite to a slightly shittier shared room. I believe Medicaid pays around $3000 a month. And that's only for a place to sleep and a med tech or patient care assistant be on site 24/7. Many of these places don't have nurses after 8pm. Do you want employees to give you your mess? How about an extra $500 a month? All that money doesn't get you superior results. I talk to some of the more coherent patients all the time on the phone. The lonelier ones keep me on the line for longer. I can't help but think there is a better model.
- cko 9y agoEDIT: employees to give you your meds
- mgiannopoulos 9y agoI was surprised to see that the article hardly mentions the logical fear of huge medical bills that are quite frequent in the US.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- ams6110 9y ago> Maybe people 60 should not be so fast to go spend their cash. He was 72 when he got sick and 84 this year when he finally passed away. Also have a living will that specifies no heroic measures so you won't languish in a hospital bed for years while squandering all your life savings
- Agathos 9y agoYeah, maybe he died thinking he got his money's worth out of those 3 million dollars. Maybe.
- firebones 9y ago(Edit: never mind. I think there's some mistake in your chronology that renders my numbers invalid. Died at 84 in 2017 == born in 1933. Retired in 1988 at age 55, probably not after 60 years at XOM, more like 30; or retired after 60 years, probably more like 1933+18+60=2011. Guessing maybe he retired at age 60 in 1993? Got sick at 72 in 2005? Died at 84? The numbers change a bit--missed out some big gains in 1988 and 1989, hit the flat 2000s, and probably got creamed by having to cash a lot out during 2008 crash.) What I was going to post based on your original report of retiring in 1988 with $3M (keeping it for illustrative purposes): He must have sold the stock when he retired to buy that house and those cars. Had he kept it in XOM, his $3 million would have been worth $22 million today, with a dividend that would have covered his expenses and that kept pace with inflation. Not that keeping your nest egg in a single stock would have been advisable, but the S&P return for that would have been comparable.
- awkwardtortoise 9y ago> Had he kept it in XOM, his $3 million would have been worth $22 million today, with a dividend that would have covered his expenses and that kept pace with inflation. His house value probably rose at a higher rate than XOM's did. Also, what's your point? His shares would be worth $22 million today and he'd still be dead.
- firebones 9y agoThe point is that his surviving wife wouldn't have to scrape by on social security, and that he wouldn't have had to have burned through his entire nest egg even if he was buying a house, cars, and spending $100K/yr + 12 years of medical expenses and long-term care. But that's moot--the edit I made was because the $22M was based on a chronology problem in the original post. The ten year difference in retirement date from 1988 to 1998 is a much better explanation of the facts, and fits the OP's premise better.
- parsnips 9y agoWhy did he not use his medicare policy? At 72 he would have been fully covered pre-Bush and would be covered in Medicare Part A & B post-Bush depending on the services.
- Spooky23 9y agoMedicare is hospital and medical coverage. When you get old, if you need skilled nursing care at home or in a nursing home, that's your dime. Typically, you get admitted to a nursing home, spend all of your money, and when you run out go to Medicaid. Your county DSS will liquidate your home and remaining assets and you'll be paid for by that until you die. If you have a surviving spouse, they get to keep some allowance.
- parsnips 9y agoI believe you're incorrect, Medicare Part A covers hospice, skilled nursing and in home care. https://www.medicare.gov/what-medicare-covers/part-a/what-part-a-covers.html https://www.medicare.gov/what-medicare-covers/part-a/what-pa...
- Spooky23 9y agoOnly in certain conditions. If you are recovering from a surgery, yes. If you need physical therapy at home, yes. If you cannot perform activities of daily living, or need more than 100 days of care, no. Nursing home: https://www.elderlawanswers.com/medicares-limited-nursing-home-coverage-12131 https://www.elderlawanswers.com/medicares-limited-nursing-ho... Home care: https://www.medicare.gov/coverage/home-health-services.html https://www.medicare.gov/coverage/home-health-services.html Activities of daily living: "Activities of daily living (ADL) are routine activities that people tend do every day without needing assistance. There are six basic ADLs: eating, bathing, dressing, toileting, transferring (walking) and continence."
- joyofdata 9y agoI'm getting more and more convinced that one of the most important goals in live should be to mature to a level where you are simply comfortable with dying. Being able to simply conclude at one point in life that it's enough and either submit to fate or commit suicide.
- intended 9y agoAnd you will also realize that this is an unachievable goal. The kind of existence you require to attain that type of ease and thinking will alienate you from the vast majority of human behavior and thought.
- joyofdata 9y agoI don't think that is true at all. It is neither unachievable as many people have achieved this already* - I don't see any reason why it should alienate me - I believe this state rather goes along with being more compassionate and empathetic - so I'd argue the opposite is true. * to give you one random example coming to mind - the journalist in Mexico who got killed by murderers from a drug cartel past week knew very well what was at stake and chose to keep doing his job - so I'd argue he managed to come to terms with having to die. it's an extreme example but reaching this mental state is likely easier in less extreme life circumstances - those most of us are impacted by.
- loco5niner 9y agoI disagree. I can think of multiple examples from my life of people who got to that point. Some I knew personally, others indirectly through people I knew.