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I sincerely hope China doesn't follow Japan's trajectory. It has a large military and strong authoritarian, nationalist tendencies. Japan's conservatives certai

I sincerely hope China doesn't follow Japan's trajectory. It has a large military and strong authoritarian, nationalist tendencies. Japan's conservatives certainly would have liked to "war" their way out of stagnantion (Abe Shinzo is still trying to do this), but their right to a military was largely dissolved as a client state of the US post-WWII. No such checks exist on China.

lacampbell 9y ago
Japan's conservatives certainly would have liked to "war" their way out of stagnantion (Abe Shinzo is still trying to do this) What war is Abe Shinzo trying to start? Is there some planned amphibious invasion of the Kurils I'm unaware of?
- alphonsegaston 9y ago
  Abe Shinzo has been explicitly trying to rehabilitate Japan's imperial legacy the entire time he has been in power. He's tied to Nippon Kaigi, a group who believe, “Japan should be applauded for liberating much of East Asia from Western colonial powers, that the 1946-1948 Tokyo War Crimes tribunals were illegitimate, and that the killings by Imperial Japanese troops during the 1937 ‘Nanjing massacre’ were exaggerated or fabricated.” I think you can predict someone with that view of history's ambitions pretty clearly. https://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/13/opinion/tea-party-politics-in-japan.html https://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/13/opinion/tea-party-politic...
  - hiram112 9y ago
    Considering the history of Japan, China, and the rest of East Asia, along with the apparent weariness of the US defense guarantee, nobody can blame Japan for wanting to begin strengthening itself militarily. They'd be stupid not to. While Japan does not have nuclear weapons at the moment (allegedly), it's assumed that they have the capabilities in place to weaponize themselves very quickly (months?) should the need arise.
    - flukus 9y ago
      > Considering the history of Japan, China, and the rest of East Asia, along with the apparent weariness of the US defense guarantee, nobody can blame Japan for wanting to begin strengthening itself militarily. They'd be stupid not to. Why? I'm not particular familar with the regions history, but from the last ~150 years or so China and Korea should be scared of Japan, not the other way around.
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
    - alphonsegaston 9y ago
      Stupid is what the conservatives have been doing for decades, namely leaning on their relationship with the US as an excuse to take a grotesque stance towards their own history. Japan, had it followed a similar course as Germany, could have reconciled themselves with the countries they tried to conquer and built a true economic union with Taiwan, Korea, and others in the region, which would have acted as a true check on a rising China. Instead, and admittedly with the encouragement of the US, they took a "temporarily embarrassed imperial" stance, cultivated an irrational and racist belief in their own inherent economic superiority, alienated their neighbors, and gave China an international relations scapegoat for anytime it was useful. The idea that they're some victim of Chinese circumstances with rising militarism as their only option ignores the decades of short-sighted conservative policy that put them in such a vulnerable position.
      - mistermann 9y ago
        Considering the majority of China's technical capability was gifted to them from western corporations, I don't think Japan's belief in their economic superiority was irrational, it was simply an observation of reality. Afaik they do consider themselves racially superior though.
  - lacampbell 9y ago
    You specifically claimed Abe Shinzo is trying to war his way out of stagnation. Who is he trying to start a war with?
vtange 9y ago
You'll need proof about Japanese militarism. Many in Japan disagree with the country's rearmament [1]. Even Chinese people find Japanese people less nationalistic than they are in recent days [2]. Though for some reason they still think Japan is a warlike/violent country. [1] http://www.pewglobal.org/2016/10/31/japanese-back-global-engagement-despite-concern-about-domestic-economy/ http://www.pewglobal.org/2016/10/31/japanese-back-global-eng... [2] http://www.pewglobal.org/2016/09/13/hostile-neighbors-china-vs-japan/ http://www.pewglobal.org/2016/09/13/hostile-neighbors-china-...
- alphonsegaston 9y ago
  Yes, I should have made more clear that I meant the Japanese government, not its people. But since Japan has not been a functional democracy since at least the 70s, the point still stands. In the post-war period, the US government has been actively subverting the Japanese left by providing political intel and financing to Japanese conservatives, who are the successors to imperial-era fascist regime. Abe's grandfather was even a war criminal administrator of the Japanese puppet state in Manchuria. http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2006/07/20/national/u-s-admits-cia-gave-ldp-money-in-1950s-1960s/ http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2006/07/20/national/u-s-adm...
ionised 9y ago
> I sincerely hope China doesn't follow Japan's trajectory. It has a large military and strong authoritarian, nationalist tendencies You know that describes the US too?
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]

lacampbell 9y ago

Japan's conservatives certainly would have liked to "war" their way out of stagnantion (Abe Shinzo is still trying to do this) What war is Abe Shinzo trying to start? Is there some planned amphibious invasion of the Kurils I'm unaware of?

alphonsegaston 9y ago
Abe Shinzo has been explicitly trying to rehabilitate Japan's imperial legacy the entire time he has been in power. He's tied to Nippon Kaigi, a group who believe, “Japan should be applauded for liberating much of East Asia from Western colonial powers, that the 1946-1948 Tokyo War Crimes tribunals were illegitimate, and that the killings by Imperial Japanese troops during the 1937 ‘Nanjing massacre’ were exaggerated or fabricated.” I think you can predict someone with that view of history's ambitions pretty clearly. https://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/13/opinion/tea-party-politics-in-japan.html https://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/13/opinion/tea-party-politic...
- hiram112 9y ago
  Considering the history of Japan, China, and the rest of East Asia, along with the apparent weariness of the US defense guarantee, nobody can blame Japan for wanting to begin strengthening itself militarily. They'd be stupid not to. While Japan does not have nuclear weapons at the moment (allegedly), it's assumed that they have the capabilities in place to weaponize themselves very quickly (months?) should the need arise.
  - flukus 9y ago
    > Considering the history of Japan, China, and the rest of East Asia, along with the apparent weariness of the US defense guarantee, nobody can blame Japan for wanting to begin strengthening itself militarily. They'd be stupid not to. Why? I'm not particular familar with the regions history, but from the last ~150 years or so China and Korea should be scared of Japan, not the other way around.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
  - alphonsegaston 9y ago
    Stupid is what the conservatives have been doing for decades, namely leaning on their relationship with the US as an excuse to take a grotesque stance towards their own history. Japan, had it followed a similar course as Germany, could have reconciled themselves with the countries they tried to conquer and built a true economic union with Taiwan, Korea, and others in the region, which would have acted as a true check on a rising China. Instead, and admittedly with the encouragement of the US, they took a "temporarily embarrassed imperial" stance, cultivated an irrational and racist belief in their own inherent economic superiority, alienated their neighbors, and gave China an international relations scapegoat for anytime it was useful. The idea that they're some victim of Chinese circumstances with rising militarism as their only option ignores the decades of short-sighted conservative policy that put them in such a vulnerable position.
    - mistermann 9y ago
      Considering the majority of China's technical capability was gifted to them from western corporations, I don't think Japan's belief in their economic superiority was irrational, it was simply an observation of reality. Afaik they do consider themselves racially superior though.
- lacampbell 9y ago
  You specifically claimed Abe Shinzo is trying to war his way out of stagnation. Who is he trying to start a war with?

vtange 9y ago

You'll need proof about Japanese militarism. Many in Japan disagree with the country's rearmament [1]. Even Chinese people find Japanese people less nationalistic than they are in recent days [2]. Though for some reason they still think Japan is a warlike/violent country. [1] http://www.pewglobal.org/2016/10/31/japanese-back-global-engagement-despite-concern-about-domestic-economy/ http://www.pewglobal.org/2016/10/31/japanese-back-global-eng... [2] http://www.pewglobal.org/2016/09/13/hostile-neighbors-china-vs-japan/ http://www.pewglobal.org/2016/09/13/hostile-neighbors-china-...

alphonsegaston 9y ago
Yes, I should have made more clear that I meant the Japanese government, not its people. But since Japan has not been a functional democracy since at least the 70s, the point still stands. In the post-war period, the US government has been actively subverting the Japanese left by providing political intel and financing to Japanese conservatives, who are the successors to imperial-era fascist regime. Abe's grandfather was even a war criminal administrator of the Japanese puppet state in Manchuria. http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2006/07/20/national/u-s-admits-cia-gave-ldp-money-in-1950s-1960s/ http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2006/07/20/national/u-s-adm...

ionised 9y ago

> I sincerely hope China doesn't follow Japan's trajectory. It has a large military and strong authoritarian, nationalist tendencies You know that describes the US too?

deleted 9y ago
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