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Whenever these `weight gain linked to soda` studies come up, I'm always confused. I've been told I'm in fantastic shape (>90% in all http://strengthlevel.com/

Whenever these `weight gain linked to soda` studies come up, I'm always confused. I've been told I'm in fantastic shape (>90% in all http://strengthlevel.com/ http://strengthlevel.com/ measurements and under 10% body fat) at the moment, and I used to consume a lot of diet soda every day. At it's worst, I consumed >1 liter a day. For me it was a caffeine source (since I dislike the taste of coffee and never saw the benefit in acquiring the taste) that helped me focus when I needed to get work done (I did a lot of tweaking around with amounts to make sure it was a marked difference and not just a placebo effect for me) and acted as an appetite suppressant so that I could manage my caloric intake without getting distracted by hunger frequently throughout the day. I constantly looked at aspartame/stevia/etc research to see what damage I would be doing to myself. While I couldn't really find much in the way of negative health effects (excluding weight gain, which I never noticed a problem with), I ultimately cut off my consumption because of a semi-irrational fear that either information was hidden by soda-corp et al, or that just because of how these chemicals work that there might be bad effects that just haven't been put under rigorous study yet. As a side note, my metabolism is actually slower than average and I need to eat on average ~10% calories less than any macronutrient calculator says to stay in the shape (low bf + strong) that I enjoy being in.

SyneRyder 9y ago
While I'm in nowhere near as good shape as you, I have similar 'anecdata' findings. I spent the last few months this year testing this, partly because I was curious about the Tim Ferriss claim that Diet Coke causes you to gain weight. (I actually wanted to test if I could lose weight just from walking & no diet changes.) Even with my two cans of Coke Zero a day, plus sparkling water with ice and a frappuccino most days, I've been losing weight for 4 months. (20.5% bf down to 16.5%.) I did add exercise, but only walking - I increased my steps up to 16000 steps a day for a while, but I'm back to sub-10000/day now. (Pebble Health has been awesome on my Pebble Time Steel.) Whatever effect carbonated beverages have, at least in my experience, it's easily countered by exercise. Maybe that's not true for everyone, but it seems it's something you can easily test on yourself for a month or two to make your own conclusions.
- dicroce 9y ago
  The study says that carbonation makes you more hungry, but you don't necessarily have to respond to that hunger.
  - code_monkey_ed 9y ago
    Thanks for the advice Nancy Reagan
- autokad 9y ago
  wow 16k/day is a lot. i walk home from work every day, that walk is just over 2 miles and I still only log in about 9k steps (iphone)
  - SyneRyder 9y ago
    Yup, at that point I was doing 2 - 2.5 hrs walking a day, though some of it was adding extra steps during my usual day, eg walking a half-mile lap around the shopping mall before going to the cafe. I was able to do it because I'm freelance / flexible hours, and I was determined to complete my experiment.
- aedron 9y ago
  The usual knock on diet sodas (actually artificial sweeteners in general) is that it wreaks havoc on the gut bacteria, which could have all sorts of adverse effects. Not sure how much evidence of this there is, but weight gain is not the only thing to be on the lookout for.
  - SyneRyder 9y ago
    That makes more sense to me. I imagine one possible side-effect of gut bacteria imbalance could be weight loss for some people, that the side-effects differ for different people.
showerst 9y ago
'weight gain linked to soda' does not mean that every single person who drinks soda will gain weight, simple as that.
- banashark 9y ago
  Right. Just wanted to provide an anecdotal perspective (for those that have similar goals as I) showing that it won't necessarily prevent them from reaching those goals.
mrfusion 9y ago
I'm surprised you didn't try caffeine pills.
- banashark 9y ago
  I ultimately cut out caffeine completely and have been trying alternative methods of improving my concentration (meditation, etc). I noticed that while using caffeine, my energy levels would go down pretty hard after the effects wore off, and my tolerance caused it's effect to diminish. Since quitting cold-turkey, I've noticed more stable energy levels throughout the day (not a surprising conclusion).
et-al 9y ago
I assume you mean "weight gain linked to diet soda" and I think the main thing is that it's still inconclusive. As much faith as we may have in science, I think in terms of dietary studies, most of them have not been able to control a bunch of outside variables. And the food industry also has a shitton of marketing noise to confuse the general populace.
abandonliberty 9y ago
Applying population results to an individual is the parallel fallacy to applying individual results to a population. While the net effect on you may not be significant, you have to decide if you want to consume something that does not demonstrate heal benefits.
- banashark 9y ago
  You're correct. It could actually be having an effect and I could just not be noticing it because there are many other variables in play. I suppose my comment was inspired by seeing posts about soda and weight gain and seeing comments of anecdotal evidence for people who have cut out diet soda and notice their weight dropping significantly. I merely wanted to provide an anecdotal data point (however useless scientifically it may be) to try and give a perspective from the other side of things.
  - bmh100 9y ago
    Anecdotes are stories, not data points. 100 stories don't become 100 data points.
    - axlprose 9y ago
      ok, but nobody was arguing that they are data points? The parent was literally saying that he wanted to convey a different story to the ones commonly heard, in order to give a more balanced picture. Nowhere does that suggest anything about data points, just people sharing stories with different view points. It's good to have a reminder that "anecdata" != real data every now and then, but in cases where you have a poster clearly acknowledging all that, bringing this up seems like little more than an out of place trope.
  - peterwwillis 9y ago
    You can eat bacon, drink whiskey, and smoke every day of your life, and live past 90. You might also die by 55. Roll them dice...
    - 9y ago
ejcx 9y ago
Bodies are complicated I completely agree with you here. I have an extremely bad habit drinking about 2L of diet soda a day (on a good day). I also exercise 4-5 days a week (powerlifting and some light cardio) and am in great shape. people who read these studies and change their habits to drinking less diet soda, hoping they lose weight, are missing the forest and seeing trees. It's a healthy improvement, but not going to impact their life significantly.
wmil 9y ago
If 1L of diet soda per day in your diet is making you worry then your diet is probably pretty healthy overall. That's less than 3 cans. Have a look at what 7/11 sells as a single serving.
- dpark 9y ago
  Rephrasing it as 3 cans of soda doesn't make it sound good. 3 cans a day is quite a bit. It might be healthy (or not), but I'm pretty sure 1000 cans/year is well above average for the typical western nation.
  - seanp2k2 9y ago
    I wouldn't be so sure about that. Soda drinkers I've met who are really into it tend to go through a few 12-packs a week. As a kid, I'd play Quake with a 2L of Cherry Coke each night, and I've known others who did the same with Mountain Dew. Live and learn, I suppose.
    - Forlien 9y ago
      http://www.businessinsider.com/americans-are-drinking-less-soda-2016-3 http://www.businessinsider.com/americans-are-drinking-less-s... says 41 gallons per capita in 2014. Converted, it's 0.4252 liters per day, so a liter per day is more than double the average.
      - mark-r 9y ago
        I wonder what the difference is between mean and median in this case?
        wmil 9y ago
        The standard deviation must be pretty high. There are lot people who drink almost no soda.
      - ericdykstra 9y ago
pixelbill 9y ago
Thank you for that long winded story about how great and strong you are that vaguely has something to do with the topic.
draw_down 9y ago
Well, maybe diet soda isn't all that bad then.
narag 9y ago
Whenever these `weight gain linked to soda` studies come up, I'm always confused. That seems like the goal, doesn't it? If sugar is singled as the cause of obesity, the next step will be taxing sugar and not diet sodas. So expect a thick smokescreen around soda. The fact that overhelming difference between beverages with a huge sugar dosage and without doesn't appear in a study is suspicious enough.
InclinedPlane 9y ago
Repeat after me: the plural of anecdote is not data. Do you deny that smoking causes lung cancer and premature death? And yet, there are people over 100 years old who have smoked for decades.
kinkrtyavimoodh 9y ago
Do you mind uploading a shirtless pic (no need to include your face)? I ask not because I don't believe you, but because I do and want to see what that looks like in the wild, esp in a community like HN.
- seanp2k2 9y ago
  I would instead recommending figuring out the right terms to search for. There are lots of examples online of varying % body fat photos: http://bfy.tw/Bpny http://bfy.tw/Bpny (somewhat snarky link provided for comedic effect)
keymone 9y ago
you might've won the genetic lottery. it's hard to imagine though that you haven't been able to find anything on the adverse health effects of sugar.
emodendroket 9y ago
With a sample size of one I'd be pretty hesitant to consider this result very significant.
askdjq11 9y ago
> I've been told I'm in fantastic shape (>90% in all http://strengthlevel.com/ http://strengthlevel.com/ measurements and under 10% body fat) at the moment Sweet humble brag but considering > As a side note, my metabolism is actually slower than average and I need to eat on average ~10% calories less than any macronutrient calculator says to stay in the shape (low bf + strong) that I enjoy being in. You're either a genetic freak or full of it. 90% on all major lifts puts you in the category of amateur competition champion. Go back and run your numbers again, and this time be honest. You're not "strong" at those numbers. You're elite. Which less than 5% of the population fits into. Those kind of people don't browse hacker news. They model for M&F and train for the olympics.

SyneRyder 9y ago

While I'm in nowhere near as good shape as you, I have similar 'anecdata' findings. I spent the last few months this year testing this, partly because I was curious about the Tim Ferriss claim that Diet Coke causes you to gain weight. (I actually wanted to test if I could lose weight just from walking & no diet changes.) Even with my two cans of Coke Zero a day, plus sparkling water with ice and a frappuccino most days, I've been losing weight for 4 months. (20.5% bf down to 16.5%.) I did add exercise, but only walking - I increased my steps up to 16000 steps a day for a while, but I'm back to sub-10000/day now. (Pebble Health has been awesome on my Pebble Time Steel.) Whatever effect carbonated beverages have, at least in my experience, it's easily countered by exercise. Maybe that's not true for everyone, but it seems it's something you can easily test on yourself for a month or two to make your own conclusions.

dicroce 9y ago
The study says that carbonation makes you more hungry, but you don't necessarily have to respond to that hunger.
- code_monkey_ed 9y ago
  Thanks for the advice Nancy Reagan
autokad 9y ago
wow 16k/day is a lot. i walk home from work every day, that walk is just over 2 miles and I still only log in about 9k steps (iphone)
- SyneRyder 9y ago
  Yup, at that point I was doing 2 - 2.5 hrs walking a day, though some of it was adding extra steps during my usual day, eg walking a half-mile lap around the shopping mall before going to the cafe. I was able to do it because I'm freelance / flexible hours, and I was determined to complete my experiment.
aedron 9y ago
The usual knock on diet sodas (actually artificial sweeteners in general) is that it wreaks havoc on the gut bacteria, which could have all sorts of adverse effects. Not sure how much evidence of this there is, but weight gain is not the only thing to be on the lookout for.
- SyneRyder 9y ago
  That makes more sense to me. I imagine one possible side-effect of gut bacteria imbalance could be weight loss for some people, that the side-effects differ for different people.

showerst 9y ago

'weight gain linked to soda' does not mean that every single person who drinks soda will gain weight, simple as that.

banashark 9y ago
Right. Just wanted to provide an anecdotal perspective (for those that have similar goals as I) showing that it won't necessarily prevent them from reaching those goals.

mrfusion 9y ago

I'm surprised you didn't try caffeine pills.

banashark 9y ago
I ultimately cut out caffeine completely and have been trying alternative methods of improving my concentration (meditation, etc). I noticed that while using caffeine, my energy levels would go down pretty hard after the effects wore off, and my tolerance caused it's effect to diminish. Since quitting cold-turkey, I've noticed more stable energy levels throughout the day (not a surprising conclusion).

et-al 9y ago

I assume you mean "weight gain linked to diet soda" and I think the main thing is that it's still inconclusive. As much faith as we may have in science, I think in terms of dietary studies, most of them have not been able to control a bunch of outside variables. And the food industry also has a shitton of marketing noise to confuse the general populace.

abandonliberty 9y ago

Applying population results to an individual is the parallel fallacy to applying individual results to a population. While the net effect on you may not be significant, you have to decide if you want to consume something that does not demonstrate heal benefits.

banashark 9y ago
You're correct. It could actually be having an effect and I could just not be noticing it because there are many other variables in play. I suppose my comment was inspired by seeing posts about soda and weight gain and seeing comments of anecdotal evidence for people who have cut out diet soda and notice their weight dropping significantly. I merely wanted to provide an anecdotal data point (however useless scientifically it may be) to try and give a perspective from the other side of things.
- bmh100 9y ago
  Anecdotes are stories, not data points. 100 stories don't become 100 data points.
  - axlprose 9y ago
    ok, but nobody was arguing that they are data points? The parent was literally saying that he wanted to convey a different story to the ones commonly heard, in order to give a more balanced picture. Nowhere does that suggest anything about data points, just people sharing stories with different view points. It's good to have a reminder that "anecdata" != real data every now and then, but in cases where you have a poster clearly acknowledging all that, bringing this up seems like little more than an out of place trope.
- peterwwillis 9y ago
  You can eat bacon, drink whiskey, and smoke every day of your life, and live past 90. You might also die by 55. Roll them dice...
  - 9y ago

ejcx 9y ago

Bodies are complicated I completely agree with you here. I have an extremely bad habit drinking about 2L of diet soda a day (on a good day). I also exercise 4-5 days a week (powerlifting and some light cardio) and am in great shape. people who read these studies and change their habits to drinking less diet soda, hoping they lose weight, are missing the forest and seeing trees. It's a healthy improvement, but not going to impact their life significantly.

wmil 9y ago

If 1L of diet soda per day in your diet is making you worry then your diet is probably pretty healthy overall. That's less than 3 cans. Have a look at what 7/11 sells as a single serving.

dpark 9y ago
Rephrasing it as 3 cans of soda doesn't make it sound good. 3 cans a day is quite a bit. It might be healthy (or not), but I'm pretty sure 1000 cans/year is well above average for the typical western nation.
- seanp2k2 9y ago
  I wouldn't be so sure about that. Soda drinkers I've met who are really into it tend to go through a few 12-packs a week. As a kid, I'd play Quake with a 2L of Cherry Coke each night, and I've known others who did the same with Mountain Dew. Live and learn, I suppose.
  - Forlien 9y ago
    http://www.businessinsider.com/americans-are-drinking-less-soda-2016-3 http://www.businessinsider.com/americans-are-drinking-less-s... says 41 gallons per capita in 2014. Converted, it's 0.4252 liters per day, so a liter per day is more than double the average.
    - mark-r 9y ago
      I wonder what the difference is between mean and median in this case?
      - wmil 9y ago
        The standard deviation must be pretty high. There are lot people who drink almost no soda.
    - ericdykstra 9y ago

pixelbill 9y ago

Thank you for that long winded story about how great and strong you are that vaguely has something to do with the topic.

draw_down 9y ago

Well, maybe diet soda isn't all that bad then.

narag 9y ago

Whenever these `weight gain linked to soda` studies come up, I'm always confused. That seems like the goal, doesn't it? If sugar is singled as the cause of obesity, the next step will be taxing sugar and not diet sodas. So expect a thick smokescreen around soda. The fact that overhelming difference between beverages with a huge sugar dosage and without doesn't appear in a study is suspicious enough.

InclinedPlane 9y ago

Repeat after me: the plural of anecdote is not data. Do you deny that smoking causes lung cancer and premature death? And yet, there are people over 100 years old who have smoked for decades.

kinkrtyavimoodh 9y ago

Do you mind uploading a shirtless pic (no need to include your face)? I ask not because I don't believe you, but because I do and want to see what that looks like in the wild, esp in a community like HN.

seanp2k2 9y ago
I would instead recommending figuring out the right terms to search for. There are lots of examples online of varying % body fat photos: http://bfy.tw/Bpny http://bfy.tw/Bpny (somewhat snarky link provided for comedic effect)

keymone 9y ago

you might've won the genetic lottery. it's hard to imagine though that you haven't been able to find anything on the adverse health effects of sugar.

emodendroket 9y ago

With a sample size of one I'd be pretty hesitant to consider this result very significant.

askdjq11 9y ago

> I've been told I'm in fantastic shape (>90% in all http://strengthlevel.com/ http://strengthlevel.com/ measurements and under 10% body fat) at the moment Sweet humble brag but considering > As a side note, my metabolism is actually slower than average and I need to eat on average ~10% calories less than any macronutrient calculator says to stay in the shape (low bf + strong) that I enjoy being in. You're either a genetic freak or full of it. 90% on all major lifts puts you in the category of amateur competition champion. Go back and run your numbers again, and this time be honest. You're not "strong" at those numbers. You're elite. Which less than 5% of the population fits into. Those kind of people don't browse hacker news. They model for M&F and train for the olympics.