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Bundling these features by default is bad for Atom. It changes Atom from an editor to an advertisement. Maybe Github dwarfs the competition but boxing them out

Bundling these features by default is bad for Atom. It changes Atom from an editor to an advertisement. Maybe Github dwarfs the competition but boxing them out of the editor is unnecessary. This smells like bundling IE with Windows 98.

tschellenbach 9y ago
On the other hand this will Github an incentive to keep on improving Atom. Maybe someone has finally figured out how to monetize an editor. I hope so, cause the current ecosystem of editors is a mess of half baked solutions.
- ksherlock 9y ago
  Monetizing an editor was a solved problem 40 years ago.
  - em3rgent0rdr 9y ago
    but stopped working maybe 20 years ago.
- eertami 9y ago
  Why use one of those half baked solutions when vim already exists?
  - giancarlostoro 9y ago
    Not everyone is productive using vim.
  - vortico 9y ago
    I've never actually seen anyone use vim more efficiently than the average programmer can use Sublime Text or Atom with no skill and a mouse pointer. It's just too much required engagement to do things as simple as move to a specific point on the screen or uncomment/indent a bunch of lines of code. Installing plugins is tedious, tabs/buffers/windows are clunky, and memorizing key commands for plugins (like a file tree view) is required before using it, not gradually learned using context menus as a crutch.
    - nextlevelwizard 9y ago
      You are obviously entitled to your opinion and it might be that you've only seen people who are still learning to use vim, but to give little perspective from someone who has been using for little over two years. Movement: Moving around is a hassle at first, most people insist using arrows instead of hjkl, but even thous are slow and tedious. You get much more mileage from using w, e and b for jumping between words, but even thous get slow after a while and recently I've been using the f and t commands to Find and jump To places (characters) I want to. Obviously it requires some time to learn and I am by no means perfect, but I dare to say it is faster than scrolling and pointing with a mouse. Plugins: I don't really see how installing plugins is tedious, you just slap one of the managers into your ~/.vim/autoload (I use pathogen) and then rest you just clone to ~/.vim/bundle. Vim doesn't have build in plugin browser and one click install, like Atom does, but at least to me that is not a problem. Maybe it's because I don't use that many plugins, who knows. Tabs/buffers: These do take some time to get used to, but I wouldn't say they are any more clunky than your average editors tabs. Memorizing commands: At first it seems like insurmountable task since almost every key is a command and as you mentioned most plugins have their own commands, but truth is you don't need most of them to get started and as you use the tool (or at least thats how it was with me) you Google how to do something tedious faster and there is almost always a better method. As for the "file tree view", I don't know what that plugin is, but I can guess and I used something called NERDTree at start, but vim's build in :find command is pretty powerful at just finding what you need and now I use fzf which makes finding files even faster. Over all I get why you might dislike vim even without trying it (since most vim users constantly push their shitty editor (and dont get me wrong vim is shit, but it's least shit editor I've yet found)), but I suggest you try using it on a side project and see if you like it, don't install any plugins at first just try reading the documentation and making changes to the config as you go along. I bet you'd be surprised how much you'd enjoy it.
      - ruleabidinguser 9y ago
        I've tried and learned vim and I'm very capable of navigating with it (I don't use marks but I use about everything else) and it is precisely good at one thing: being an editor. If you try to make it an IDE, I believe you're just using a bad IDE. It is only effective for me as a very lightweight editor for quickly making simple edits to a file. Why don't I like it as an IDE? * Second hand auto complete * Second hand project management * No debugger These are actually to me huge features and the third party support for each of them exists but doesn't touch the quality of implementation in a dedicated IDE. Not to mention it adds hours of extra work to getting started in an environment you don't already have configured. And frankly, you don't have to learn vim to recognize this.
- eertami 9y ago
  Why use one of those half baked solutions when vim already exists?
- heygrady 9y ago
  Installing the bundle as a plugin would change none of that. Editors are half-backed because the proof of concept is easy and the fully realized app is hard. Atom has some good things going for it (minus performance) and this Github bundle is probably awesome. But it's not good product management to pick favorites like they did.
- tomc1985 9y ago
  More like a mess of overbaked solutions.
hoschicz 9y ago
I find bundling Git support with Atom is a requirement, VSCode does it.
- jdmichal 9y ago
  Of course, VSCode also supports TFS, Perforce, and Mercurial via extensions: https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/search?target=VSCode&category=SCM https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/search?target=VSCode&ca... Providers
  - heygrady 9y ago
    There are community-provided atom packages for all/most of the providers you listed. The point isn't one editor versus another. The point is that Atom should remain plausibly neutral about Github (which is separate from Git or Mercurial or whatever). An analogy would be if VSCode shipped with a fancy CodePlex dashboard by default (I know CodePlex is dead). There's an obvious incentive for them to pick sides but it's not in the best interest of the people using the editor nor the editor itself.
    - Vinnl 9y ago
      > An analogy would be if VSCode shipped with a fancy CodePlex dashboard by default Or, for example, a "Deploy to Azure" button...
- heygrady 9y ago
  Git support is different than a Github bundle. Github is different than Git.
  - wapz 9y ago
    But atom is made by github, right? Not to justify their choice but you can see from a company perspective how it surely aligns with their goals (increase github market share).
    - 9y ago
Analemma_ 9y ago
It's a tricky question. Visual Studio Code (probably Atom's chief rival at the moment) has git support right out of the box, so there's a plausible argument that it's a must-have feature. GitHub is less clear.
philipov 9y ago
As long as they make it easy to hook up to a competing repository solution, like Gitlab, I'm fine with it.
jordache 9y ago
who cares what it smells like.. if you use github, why would you prefer github to "stay pure" as you've put it?
robert_foss 9y ago
I couldn't agree more. Thanks for saying so.
saagarjha 9y ago
I've always considered Atom to be an advertisement for GitHub. The branding is unmistakable.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
skrebbel 9y ago
to me it smells more like adding a "deploy to Azure" button to Visual Studio. (It's had that button since Azure started) Thing is, nobody is going to download Atom, see that the GitHub support is built in and say 'oh! Now we're going to have to migrate the team to GitHub!'.
- petre 9y ago
  VS Code has a smiley you can use to post feedback to Twitter. It makes the status bar look like a juvenile bulletin board. It's already been reported as an issue and people want it out of the way. That alone made me deinstall it after less than five minutes.
  - PetahNZ 9y ago
    Really? You gave up on an editor because of a smiley face icon? And you call the editor juvenile?
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
  - joshmanders 9y ago
    I seriously have no words. That is the pettiest thing I've ever seen in my life.

tschellenbach 9y ago

On the other hand this will Github an incentive to keep on improving Atom. Maybe someone has finally figured out how to monetize an editor. I hope so, cause the current ecosystem of editors is a mess of half baked solutions.

ksherlock 9y ago
Monetizing an editor was a solved problem 40 years ago.
- em3rgent0rdr 9y ago
  but stopped working maybe 20 years ago.
eertami 9y ago
Why use one of those half baked solutions when vim already exists?
- giancarlostoro 9y ago
  Not everyone is productive using vim.
- vortico 9y ago
  I've never actually seen anyone use vim more efficiently than the average programmer can use Sublime Text or Atom with no skill and a mouse pointer. It's just too much required engagement to do things as simple as move to a specific point on the screen or uncomment/indent a bunch of lines of code. Installing plugins is tedious, tabs/buffers/windows are clunky, and memorizing key commands for plugins (like a file tree view) is required before using it, not gradually learned using context menus as a crutch.
  - nextlevelwizard 9y ago
    You are obviously entitled to your opinion and it might be that you've only seen people who are still learning to use vim, but to give little perspective from someone who has been using for little over two years. Movement: Moving around is a hassle at first, most people insist using arrows instead of hjkl, but even thous are slow and tedious. You get much more mileage from using w, e and b for jumping between words, but even thous get slow after a while and recently I've been using the f and t commands to Find and jump To places (characters) I want to. Obviously it requires some time to learn and I am by no means perfect, but I dare to say it is faster than scrolling and pointing with a mouse. Plugins: I don't really see how installing plugins is tedious, you just slap one of the managers into your ~/.vim/autoload (I use pathogen) and then rest you just clone to ~/.vim/bundle. Vim doesn't have build in plugin browser and one click install, like Atom does, but at least to me that is not a problem. Maybe it's because I don't use that many plugins, who knows. Tabs/buffers: These do take some time to get used to, but I wouldn't say they are any more clunky than your average editors tabs. Memorizing commands: At first it seems like insurmountable task since almost every key is a command and as you mentioned most plugins have their own commands, but truth is you don't need most of them to get started and as you use the tool (or at least thats how it was with me) you Google how to do something tedious faster and there is almost always a better method. As for the "file tree view", I don't know what that plugin is, but I can guess and I used something called NERDTree at start, but vim's build in :find command is pretty powerful at just finding what you need and now I use fzf which makes finding files even faster. Over all I get why you might dislike vim even without trying it (since most vim users constantly push their shitty editor (and dont get me wrong vim is shit, but it's least shit editor I've yet found)), but I suggest you try using it on a side project and see if you like it, don't install any plugins at first just try reading the documentation and making changes to the config as you go along. I bet you'd be surprised how much you'd enjoy it.
    - ruleabidinguser 9y ago
      I've tried and learned vim and I'm very capable of navigating with it (I don't use marks but I use about everything else) and it is precisely good at one thing: being an editor. If you try to make it an IDE, I believe you're just using a bad IDE. It is only effective for me as a very lightweight editor for quickly making simple edits to a file. Why don't I like it as an IDE? * Second hand auto complete * Second hand project management * No debugger These are actually to me huge features and the third party support for each of them exists but doesn't touch the quality of implementation in a dedicated IDE. Not to mention it adds hours of extra work to getting started in an environment you don't already have configured. And frankly, you don't have to learn vim to recognize this.
eertami 9y ago
Why use one of those half baked solutions when vim already exists?
heygrady 9y ago
Installing the bundle as a plugin would change none of that. Editors are half-backed because the proof of concept is easy and the fully realized app is hard. Atom has some good things going for it (minus performance) and this Github bundle is probably awesome. But it's not good product management to pick favorites like they did.
tomc1985 9y ago
More like a mess of overbaked solutions.

hoschicz 9y ago

I find bundling Git support with Atom is a requirement, VSCode does it.

jdmichal 9y ago
Of course, VSCode also supports TFS, Perforce, and Mercurial via extensions: https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/search?target=VSCode&category=SCM https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/search?target=VSCode&ca... Providers
- heygrady 9y ago
  There are community-provided atom packages for all/most of the providers you listed. The point isn't one editor versus another. The point is that Atom should remain plausibly neutral about Github (which is separate from Git or Mercurial or whatever). An analogy would be if VSCode shipped with a fancy CodePlex dashboard by default (I know CodePlex is dead). There's an obvious incentive for them to pick sides but it's not in the best interest of the people using the editor nor the editor itself.
  - Vinnl 9y ago
    > An analogy would be if VSCode shipped with a fancy CodePlex dashboard by default Or, for example, a "Deploy to Azure" button...
heygrady 9y ago
Git support is different than a Github bundle. Github is different than Git.
- wapz 9y ago
  But atom is made by github, right? Not to justify their choice but you can see from a company perspective how it surely aligns with their goals (increase github market share).
  - 9y ago

Analemma_ 9y ago

It's a tricky question. Visual Studio Code (probably Atom's chief rival at the moment) has git support right out of the box, so there's a plausible argument that it's a must-have feature. GitHub is less clear.

philipov 9y ago

As long as they make it easy to hook up to a competing repository solution, like Gitlab, I'm fine with it.

jordache 9y ago

who cares what it smells like.. if you use github, why would you prefer github to "stay pure" as you've put it?

robert_foss 9y ago

I couldn't agree more. Thanks for saying so.

saagarjha 9y ago

I've always considered Atom to be an advertisement for GitHub. The branding is unmistakable.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

skrebbel 9y ago

to me it smells more like adding a "deploy to Azure" button to Visual Studio. (It's had that button since Azure started) Thing is, nobody is going to download Atom, see that the GitHub support is built in and say 'oh! Now we're going to have to migrate the team to GitHub!'.

petre 9y ago
VS Code has a smiley you can use to post feedback to Twitter. It makes the status bar look like a juvenile bulletin board. It's already been reported as an issue and people want it out of the way. That alone made me deinstall it after less than five minutes.
- PetahNZ 9y ago
  Really? You gave up on an editor because of a smiley face icon? And you call the editor juvenile?
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- joshmanders 9y ago
  I seriously have no words. That is the pettiest thing I've ever seen in my life.