6 ms·

A well written story. I'd be interested in hearing from any Filipino commentators how common this practice still is/is perceived to be in the Philippines today.

by neaden 9y ago

A well written story. I'd be interested in hearing from any Filipino commentators how common this practice still is/is perceived to be in the Philippines today. It's ranked 33/167 by Global Slavery Index[0] as compared to the US at #52. [0]https://www.globalslaveryindex.org/country/philippines/ https://www.globalslaveryindex.org/country/philippines/

barsonme 9y ago
for people who don't click the link: a larger number is better. it's ranking by prevalence, so countries like North Korea (rank #1) worse than countries like the U.S. (#52) and Australia (also #52). I couldn't find a country that was ranked #167 out of #167, though. I think #52 is as high as it goes.
- briholt 9y ago
  Yeah, looks like most of the West is tied for #52.
  - nebulous1 9y ago
    Due to all of them having an estimated 0.018% in slavery, which seems kind of arbitrary so they should really mark that as some sort of minimal slavery standard rather than make it look like an estimate actually based on the country. Site seems pretty good overall but is missing a hard facts and figures section to go alongside the nice graphical interface. They appear to offer a pdf report but they wanted me to request access to get it.
    - Chris2048 9y ago
      > Due to all of them having an estimated 0.018% in slavery So they didn't count prisoner labour?
      - mcv 9y ago
        If it's forced labour, it should count. If it's voluntary (to allow inmates to make some money and have something to do), then it shouldn't.
        Chris2048 9y ago
        Prison itself isn't voluntary, so it's a biased choice.
        mcv 9y ago
        True, but whether inmates are forced to provide cheap labor still makes a lot of difference. After the abolition of slavery in the US, prison labor has been used as a replacement in areas that used to rely on slave labor.
        Chris2048 9y ago
        > whether inmates are forced to provide cheap labor still makes a lot of difference What is 'force' though? "Do this or I hit you with a stick"? "Do this and you go back to your cage"? "Do this or there will be nothing positive in your life"? The prison gets cheap labour. Slavery is just a border on a map of human exploitation, I think some distinctions need far more qualification to be relevant.
- codehusker 9y ago
  It seems that a higher ranking is worse. > The Index presents a ranking of 167 countries based on the proportion of the population that is estimated to be in modern slavery. [0] North Korea, with 4.37% in slavery, is ranked 1. India, with 1.4% in slavery, is ranked 4. Philippines, with 0.4% in slavery, is ranked 33. China, with 0.25% in slavery, is ranked 40. USA, with .02% in slavery, is ranked 52. [0] https://www.globalslaveryindex.org/findings/ https://www.globalslaveryindex.org/findings/ EDIT: number -> ranking
  - smhenderson 9y ago
    How is a higher number worse if there is less slavery in countries with a higher number?
    - codehusker 9y ago
      I should have phrased it as a higher ranking rather than a higher number. I assumed 'higher' was clear in the terms of ranks, rather than a larger number. GP's claim makes it seem like they interpreted as I did. > ...countries like North Korea (rank #1) are closer to 0... NK is not close to 0 in relative or absolute slave counts, and I don't see the utility in pointing out that 1 is closer to 0 than 52.
      - smhenderson 9y ago
        Yes, I replied before you edited your post, I get your meaning now. Thanks for clarifying.
  - barsonme 9y ago
    I meant 'higher' as in 'larger', sorry.
  - mcv 9y ago
    What surprises me is that Netherland, while praised for doing the most to fight slavery, is, at #50, ranked lower than the US, which I believe has forced prison labour. Maybe it has to do with prostitution being legal here. You'd expect licensed and regulated prostitution to reduce slavery in prostitution, but apparently it's still a serious problem. Still, 17,500 people in slavery? That's a lot. I'd like to know where they got that figure.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
jimmywanger 9y ago
I don't know how common it is in the Philippines, but it's very common in rich parts of China and Taiwan [0]. Although they probably do get paid something and have freedom, the situations are very similar. Dropped into a location without the ability to speak the language or financial resources to escape. [0] https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00EHNSDKK/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00EHNSDKK/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?...
- prawn 9y ago
  A friend of mine has talked about the situation in other island nations nearby where some will have young staff; males as drivers, gardening, running errands, and females for cooking, cleaning and sex. I imagine there would be a serious power imbalance with that last item.
  - wyclif 9y ago
    Here in the Philippines you can hire a young female "housekeeper" who doesn't actually do any housework, if you know what I mean. The job title is for the neighbours and the tsismosas (town gossips).
  - jimmywanger 9y ago
    Ethnically Chinese people are hated in Indonesia and the Philippines.[0] As in, during times of unrest and civil disturbance, there is a lot of murder and rape of Chinese people. Partly for this reason. The addition of ethnic differences to economic inequality is a volatile mixture. [0] https://www.amazon.com/World-Fire-Exporting-Democracy-Instability-ebook/dp/B000FC0ZB2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1494988715&sr=8-1&keywords=amy+chua+world+on+fire https://www.amazon.com/World-Fire-Exporting-Democracy-Instab...
- torantas 9y ago
  What? It's not similar at all. Not only are they paid well, there are government restrictions on who can hire a foreign live-in caregiver. Usually there has to be a compelling reason like the person is handicapped or extremely elderly. The reason it's so heavily regulated is because they are taking away jobs from native caregivers. That book was published in 2006 and if that's what you got from it, then it's extremely outdated.
scarletsally 9y ago
Still a very common practice, especially in the Philippines. I'm making stats here based on my personal observation, but here's how it goes: - The lower class (below or near poverty line) would usually have relatives (sisters or mothers) helping them out - The middle class are more likely to employ help, especially once they start their own families. - The upper class definitely employ help. The number of employed help is sometimes even bigger than their own family. And they are treated as employees -- complete with uniforms etc. It's pretty common to see them eat out at a restaurant, and not have the help sit at the same table as them.
- jnbiche 9y ago
  > The number of employed help is sometimes even bigger than their own family. And they are treated as employees -- complete with uniforms etc. I think it would be helpful to distinguish between a true remunerated employer-employee relationship like what you appear to describe above, and unpaid slavery like what is described in the article. The former is a valued part of the economy in many developing country (if you're wealthy and employ no household staff in some such countries you're considered stingy). The latter is slavery, nothing less nothing more, as the author of the piece was able to recognize at a fairly early age.
  - scarletsally 9y ago
    You're right. In the middle class, the relationship isn't as distinguished. Usually, the salary really is just an "allowance", like the author stated. Other families already consider feeding the help & providing a roof for them as their salary.
    - sidlls 9y ago
      Those other families are masters in a master-slave relationship.
      - Mz 9y ago
        Not really. Historically, slaves were often not fed by their owners. They worked all day on the plantation in the Deep South, then went home and tended their own gardens because their owners did not feed them. "Room and board" is valid compensation in some jobs. There are valid jobs to this day where having a place to stay is a large part of the compensation you will receive. It is not as black and white as you seem to think.
interger 9y ago
Filipino here living in the Philippines. What I can tell you is that this kind slavery-level practice is virtually non-existent. Maids/Housekeepers/"Kasambahay"s/"Katulong"s are expected to be paid. The practice of employing kasambahays is still common among the middle class and is expected of rich families. In lower classes families that are more well off sometimes takes in relatives, of course paying them something for them to save up or paying for their tuition if they're studying. Houseworkers are mostly needed to take care of little children as it is now more common for families to have both parents working. Here in the Philippines a LOT of television dramas are with protagonists coming from lower classes, often with plots where they are being employed as houseworkers (and you kind of get where this is going :). And television viewership is almost universal here, even in remote villages. I think this really helps a lot for people who identify with these drama characters. We have now laws setting salary, benefits and treatment standards for houseworkers. This is the landmark law that was signed into law in 2013: https://www.dole.gov.ph/files/Q%20&%20A%20on%20Batas%20Kasambahay%20(RA%20No%2010361).pdf https://www.dole.gov.ph/files/Q%20&%20A%20on%20Batas%20Kasam...
bestopesto 9y ago
It was common among my (upper-class) extended family, but (disclaimer) I only ever visited every year or so until I was 15. A lot needs to be done in terms of triangulating proper compensation and upping respect for some families, but I think people also need to maybe visit the Philippines. That's not to say I didn't find it weird, I totally did. They were privy to such intimate aspects of our lives, but sitting in the car next to them was weird, and they wouldn't really be "allowed" to eat with us (although my mother, around Alex's age, was fine with them eating with us). It was unsettling to me even as a young kid. It was like they were these pariahs and I didn't exactly know why and couldn't really ask why, but they were so present in the day to day that they would know when I cried over something stupid or if I had a period stain I had trouble washing out. But, I think it's also good to have some frame of reference. Again, proper compensation and respect are essential. But also realise that it's a country trying to grow it's middle class and that there's no way to go from point A to point B in the major metropolitan area without seeing children digging through trash, shanty-towns that may or may not wear the next rainy flood, etc. In these situations, proper compensation for a live-in helper to a middle class family maybe (I wouldn't know) is the stability of room and board and food, even if that means sleeping on a futon with the other live-in workers (who do different roles) in a tiny spare room. My philosophy tends to be that if you can reasonably afford to give them better standards, then do so. So if you're a foreigner, give them that extra $20 because they will certainly appreciate the exchange rate. If you're well-to-do and regularly have live-in help, having proper "maids quarters" and cots can't be too much of an ask over time.
poweribo 9y ago
A live-in househelp is very common and it is true that even the not-well-to-do families even have their own katulongs, normally a relative who are a lot poorer than them. In fact, we had several throughout my childhood (all have wages btw). we call them Yaya instead of Lola (ymmv). My Aunt was like the authors Mom the way she treated the "katulongs" but that story is for another time. My Mom even used to be a katulong. Her story is probably the same as many other Filipinos born in poverty. Her mom (my grandma) worked for my-now Aunt, and let my mom stay and help with house chores, in exchange for school tuition as my grandmas wage can hardly cover it. We have househelps until now, they stayed with us for like 15-20 years and becoming our secondary parents/aunties. We give them health care plan, weekend holidays, bonuses. They have their own rooms too. Whenever I visit Philippines, I always makes sure they get their extra bonuses. Every time I send "balikbayan" boxes, they are first in line to rummage ;P. They dont really have anywhere to go after living with us for so long. They have become family. I have heard similar of Alex Tizon's story in HK and Singapore. Filipino overseas workers basically becomes the primary mom, stays with the host family till theirs kids have families of their own and yet treated like shit (ie. they dont get to eat dinner on the same table of the host family but responsible for raising her kid). Id say wtf now but I remember my Aunt... rest in peace.
- poweribo 9y ago
  as a follow-up to my post above, we have poor relatives who would ask for financial assistance to their schooling. My moms approach would be, sure I'll give you your tuition money but youll have to stay in hour house, free food and lodging but youll have to help with the chores. My mom lives off on the "pension" we send her on a regular basis (no income nor pension money from govt) so I think thats just fair. There aint no such thing as free lunch. Youd be surprised that some of these relatives would refuse but hey choose your own life path.

by neaden 9y ago

barsonme 9y ago

for people who don't click the link: a larger number is better. it's ranking by prevalence, so countries like North Korea (rank #1) worse than countries like the U.S. (#52) and Australia (also #52). I couldn't find a country that was ranked #167 out of #167, though. I think #52 is as high as it goes.

briholt 9y ago
Yeah, looks like most of the West is tied for #52.
- nebulous1 9y ago
  Due to all of them having an estimated 0.018% in slavery, which seems kind of arbitrary so they should really mark that as some sort of minimal slavery standard rather than make it look like an estimate actually based on the country. Site seems pretty good overall but is missing a hard facts and figures section to go alongside the nice graphical interface. They appear to offer a pdf report but they wanted me to request access to get it.
  - Chris2048 9y ago
    > Due to all of them having an estimated 0.018% in slavery So they didn't count prisoner labour?
    - mcv 9y ago
      If it's forced labour, it should count. If it's voluntary (to allow inmates to make some money and have something to do), then it shouldn't.
      - Chris2048 9y ago
        Prison itself isn't voluntary, so it's a biased choice.
        mcv 9y ago
        True, but whether inmates are forced to provide cheap labor still makes a lot of difference. After the abolition of slavery in the US, prison labor has been used as a replacement in areas that used to rely on slave labor.
        Chris2048 9y ago
        > whether inmates are forced to provide cheap labor still makes a lot of difference What is 'force' though? "Do this or I hit you with a stick"? "Do this and you go back to your cage"? "Do this or there will be nothing positive in your life"? The prison gets cheap labour. Slavery is just a border on a map of human exploitation, I think some distinctions need far more qualification to be relevant.
codehusker 9y ago
It seems that a higher ranking is worse. > The Index presents a ranking of 167 countries based on the proportion of the population that is estimated to be in modern slavery. [0] North Korea, with 4.37% in slavery, is ranked 1. India, with 1.4% in slavery, is ranked 4. Philippines, with 0.4% in slavery, is ranked 33. China, with 0.25% in slavery, is ranked 40. USA, with .02% in slavery, is ranked 52. [0] https://www.globalslaveryindex.org/findings/ https://www.globalslaveryindex.org/findings/ EDIT: number -> ranking
- smhenderson 9y ago
  How is a higher number worse if there is less slavery in countries with a higher number?
  - codehusker 9y ago
    I should have phrased it as a higher ranking rather than a higher number. I assumed 'higher' was clear in the terms of ranks, rather than a larger number. GP's claim makes it seem like they interpreted as I did. > ...countries like North Korea (rank #1) are closer to 0... NK is not close to 0 in relative or absolute slave counts, and I don't see the utility in pointing out that 1 is closer to 0 than 52.
    - smhenderson 9y ago
      Yes, I replied before you edited your post, I get your meaning now. Thanks for clarifying.
- barsonme 9y ago
  I meant 'higher' as in 'larger', sorry.
- mcv 9y ago
  What surprises me is that Netherland, while praised for doing the most to fight slavery, is, at #50, ranked lower than the US, which I believe has forced prison labour. Maybe it has to do with prostitution being legal here. You'd expect licensed and regulated prostitution to reduce slavery in prostitution, but apparently it's still a serious problem. Still, 17,500 people in slavery? That's a lot. I'd like to know where they got that figure.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

jimmywanger 9y ago

I don't know how common it is in the Philippines, but it's very common in rich parts of China and Taiwan [0]. Although they probably do get paid something and have freedom, the situations are very similar. Dropped into a location without the ability to speak the language or financial resources to escape. [0] https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00EHNSDKK/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00EHNSDKK/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?...

prawn 9y ago
A friend of mine has talked about the situation in other island nations nearby where some will have young staff; males as drivers, gardening, running errands, and females for cooking, cleaning and sex. I imagine there would be a serious power imbalance with that last item.
- wyclif 9y ago
  Here in the Philippines you can hire a young female "housekeeper" who doesn't actually do any housework, if you know what I mean. The job title is for the neighbours and the tsismosas (town gossips).
- jimmywanger 9y ago
  Ethnically Chinese people are hated in Indonesia and the Philippines.[0] As in, during times of unrest and civil disturbance, there is a lot of murder and rape of Chinese people. Partly for this reason. The addition of ethnic differences to economic inequality is a volatile mixture. [0] https://www.amazon.com/World-Fire-Exporting-Democracy-Instability-ebook/dp/B000FC0ZB2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1494988715&sr=8-1&keywords=amy+chua+world+on+fire https://www.amazon.com/World-Fire-Exporting-Democracy-Instab...
torantas 9y ago
What? It's not similar at all. Not only are they paid well, there are government restrictions on who can hire a foreign live-in caregiver. Usually there has to be a compelling reason like the person is handicapped or extremely elderly. The reason it's so heavily regulated is because they are taking away jobs from native caregivers. That book was published in 2006 and if that's what you got from it, then it's extremely outdated.

scarletsally 9y ago

Still a very common practice, especially in the Philippines. I'm making stats here based on my personal observation, but here's how it goes: - The lower class (below or near poverty line) would usually have relatives (sisters or mothers) helping them out - The middle class are more likely to employ help, especially once they start their own families. - The upper class definitely employ help. The number of employed help is sometimes even bigger than their own family. And they are treated as employees -- complete with uniforms etc. It's pretty common to see them eat out at a restaurant, and not have the help sit at the same table as them.

jnbiche 9y ago
> The number of employed help is sometimes even bigger than their own family. And they are treated as employees -- complete with uniforms etc. I think it would be helpful to distinguish between a true remunerated employer-employee relationship like what you appear to describe above, and unpaid slavery like what is described in the article. The former is a valued part of the economy in many developing country (if you're wealthy and employ no household staff in some such countries you're considered stingy). The latter is slavery, nothing less nothing more, as the author of the piece was able to recognize at a fairly early age.
- scarletsally 9y ago
  You're right. In the middle class, the relationship isn't as distinguished. Usually, the salary really is just an "allowance", like the author stated. Other families already consider feeding the help & providing a roof for them as their salary.
  - sidlls 9y ago
    Those other families are masters in a master-slave relationship.
    - Mz 9y ago
      Not really. Historically, slaves were often not fed by their owners. They worked all day on the plantation in the Deep South, then went home and tended their own gardens because their owners did not feed them. "Room and board" is valid compensation in some jobs. There are valid jobs to this day where having a place to stay is a large part of the compensation you will receive. It is not as black and white as you seem to think.

interger 9y ago

Filipino here living in the Philippines. What I can tell you is that this kind slavery-level practice is virtually non-existent. Maids/Housekeepers/"Kasambahay"s/"Katulong"s are expected to be paid. The practice of employing kasambahays is still common among the middle class and is expected of rich families. In lower classes families that are more well off sometimes takes in relatives, of course paying them something for them to save up or paying for their tuition if they're studying. Houseworkers are mostly needed to take care of little children as it is now more common for families to have both parents working. Here in the Philippines a LOT of television dramas are with protagonists coming from lower classes, often with plots where they are being employed as houseworkers (and you kind of get where this is going :). And television viewership is almost universal here, even in remote villages. I think this really helps a lot for people who identify with these drama characters. We have now laws setting salary, benefits and treatment standards for houseworkers. This is the landmark law that was signed into law in 2013: https://www.dole.gov.ph/files/Q%20&%20A%20on%20Batas%20Kasambahay%20(RA%20No%2010361).pdf https://www.dole.gov.ph/files/Q%20&%20A%20on%20Batas%20Kasam...

bestopesto 9y ago

It was common among my (upper-class) extended family, but (disclaimer) I only ever visited every year or so until I was 15. A lot needs to be done in terms of triangulating proper compensation and upping respect for some families, but I think people also need to maybe visit the Philippines. That's not to say I didn't find it weird, I totally did. They were privy to such intimate aspects of our lives, but sitting in the car next to them was weird, and they wouldn't really be "allowed" to eat with us (although my mother, around Alex's age, was fine with them eating with us). It was unsettling to me even as a young kid. It was like they were these pariahs and I didn't exactly know why and couldn't really ask why, but they were so present in the day to day that they would know when I cried over something stupid or if I had a period stain I had trouble washing out. But, I think it's also good to have some frame of reference. Again, proper compensation and respect are essential. But also realise that it's a country trying to grow it's middle class and that there's no way to go from point A to point B in the major metropolitan area without seeing children digging through trash, shanty-towns that may or may not wear the next rainy flood, etc. In these situations, proper compensation for a live-in helper to a middle class family maybe (I wouldn't know) is the stability of room and board and food, even if that means sleeping on a futon with the other live-in workers (who do different roles) in a tiny spare room. My philosophy tends to be that if you can reasonably afford to give them better standards, then do so. So if you're a foreigner, give them that extra $20 because they will certainly appreciate the exchange rate. If you're well-to-do and regularly have live-in help, having proper "maids quarters" and cots can't be too much of an ask over time.

poweribo 9y ago

A live-in househelp is very common and it is true that even the not-well-to-do families even have their own katulongs, normally a relative who are a lot poorer than them. In fact, we had several throughout my childhood (all have wages btw). we call them Yaya instead of Lola (ymmv). My Aunt was like the authors Mom the way she treated the "katulongs" but that story is for another time. My Mom even used to be a katulong. Her story is probably the same as many other Filipinos born in poverty. Her mom (my grandma) worked for my-now Aunt, and let my mom stay and help with house chores, in exchange for school tuition as my grandmas wage can hardly cover it. We have househelps until now, they stayed with us for like 15-20 years and becoming our secondary parents/aunties. We give them health care plan, weekend holidays, bonuses. They have their own rooms too. Whenever I visit Philippines, I always makes sure they get their extra bonuses. Every time I send "balikbayan" boxes, they are first in line to rummage ;P. They dont really have anywhere to go after living with us for so long. They have become family. I have heard similar of Alex Tizon's story in HK and Singapore. Filipino overseas workers basically becomes the primary mom, stays with the host family till theirs kids have families of their own and yet treated like shit (ie. they dont get to eat dinner on the same table of the host family but responsible for raising her kid). Id say wtf now but I remember my Aunt... rest in peace.

poweribo 9y ago
as a follow-up to my post above, we have poor relatives who would ask for financial assistance to their schooling. My moms approach would be, sure I'll give you your tuition money but youll have to stay in hour house, free food and lodging but youll have to help with the chores. My mom lives off on the "pension" we send her on a regular basis (no income nor pension money from govt) so I think thats just fair. There aint no such thing as free lunch. Youd be surprised that some of these relatives would refuse but hey choose your own life path.