7 ms·

From the linked article re Cupertino: > For a fast-food restaurant, the city demands one space for every three seats; for a bowling alley, seven spaces per lan

From the linked article re Cupertino: > For a fast-food restaurant, the city demands one space for every three seats; for a bowling alley, seven spaces per lane plus one for every worker. I've read a bunch of articles about the negative externalities of minimum parking requirements, but haven't really seen one explore the why behind these rules. What does it matter to the city if a bowling alley doesn't have enough parking spaces? Wouldn't that just be bad for the bowling alley's business? If it's about ensuring the supply of street parking why not just install meters to make the city money when the bowling alley fails to build sufficient parking? I'm usually the first to mock this kind of trite 'invisible hand' supply-and-demand explanation, but this really seems like something that would be very well left to the business to figure out.

jacobolus 9y ago
A few cities started making up parking requirements, and then others copied them. The way they decided how many parking spaces were needed was by looking at peak demand and then forcing all businesses to have enough parking to never run out. Since the ones making these decisions are local officials, copying another city’s regulation is easier than doing a serious study of real parking needs. Nobody ever thought very systemically about this until the whole thing had been in place throughout suburban America for years.
giarc 9y ago
A bowling alley with no parking quickly stops being a bowling alley. The city has an interest in ensuring businesses remain in business so they can continue to collect taxes from them.
linkregister 9y ago
I lived in a city that had a revival of its industrial area. There was no parking garage for the new bars and restaurants, so all visitors simply parked in the residents' neighborhoods. Quality of life drastically declined for those residents, and I ended up having to leave due to family members being unable to find parking in under 30 minutes in the evening. Public transit in the city was underfunded so it was only realistic for certain commutes within the city. I have no idea why suburban Cupertino would be worried about this risk; it sounds like an underhanded way to limit occupancy and capacity (you build a 1000-person office instead of 2000, because you had to have extra space for parking).
- jseliger 9y ago
  There was no parking garage for the new bars and restaurants, so all visitors simply parked in the residents' neighborhoods This is a solved problem: Charge for parking and the shortage goes away. Meter technology is decades old and well understood. https://www.amazon.com/High-Cost-Free-Parking-Updated/dp/193236496X https://www.amazon.com/High-Cost-Free-Parking-Updated/dp/193...
  - linkregister 9y ago
    When you become dictator, maybe that will be viable. In the meantime, what sane city council member is going to tell residents they need to pay for parking in front of their own townhouses?
    - valuearb 9y ago
      Everyone would jump on board if the city would just allocate the parking revenues to the home or building owners.
      - linkregister 9y ago
        Where has this successfully been implemented? There's a similar mechanism to what you proposed, resident-only parking permits. This pits the business owners against the residents. It also means that a resident can't have their friends come to visit without risking a ticket. The knee-jerk HN-ism of quick fixes doesn't work here. The only actual solution is the long-term dual-pronged approach: parking structures in the interim, while improving public transit coverage overall.
        jseliger 9y ago
        Japan, for one: http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2016/08/the-japanese-zoning-system.html http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2016/08/the.... Washington State also makes some zoning decisions and targets some growth targets at the state level (see http://digitalcommons.law.seattleu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1728&context=sulr http://digitalcommons.law.seattleu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?a..., although I can't find a better piece off the top of my head), which helps matters. The only actual solution is the long-term dual-pronged approach: parking structures in the interim, while improving public transit coverage overall. The actual solution is people paying for what they use, i.e. markets: If people want parking structures, they'll pay for them. I'd really suggest that you look at the link in the comment I posted above.
aetherson 9y ago
The theory is that street or public or other not-specific-to-this-business parking is a commons, and that absent regulation, everyone will try to maximize their share of the commons even to the detriment of all.
pchristensen 9y ago
So the customers of the popular bowling alley don't park in the parking lot of the neighboring businesses. It's forcing every business to play nice with their neighbors, rather than free-ride off of them. Most mall parking lots are sized for the demand of the busiest day of the Christmas shopping season, and are consequently underused for most of the year.
- jdavis703 9y ago
  Well then the next door business can either charge for parking and offer free parking validation after you buy something, or just have a tow truck waiting to tow people who park and don't enter the premises.
  - kylec 9y ago
    So, shift the burden to the business that actually paid to create enough parking for their customers?
    - mikelward 9y ago
      Either that or keep building lots of parking, ensuring private cars are the only option. Choose your poison.
  - redial 9y ago
    Not everyone wants to be in the parking-lot business.
  - pchristensen 9y ago
    I'm not saying it's the right solution (I'm in favor of dynamic pricing of parking - google "Donald Shoup" for more info). But I got a degree in Urban Planning and that's what I learned was the rationale for municipal minimum parking requirements. Keep in mind, the US had 200 million fewer people in 1945. More of America has been built since WWII than existed during it.
smackfu 9y ago
I've seen cities use these parking requirements to de facto give the zoning board more power over development. A downtown business might be required to have 10 parking spots but the city doesn't even want anyone to build parking lots so they will give an exception... after demanding changes to the design.

jacobolus 9y ago

A few cities started making up parking requirements, and then others copied them. The way they decided how many parking spaces were needed was by looking at peak demand and then forcing all businesses to have enough parking to never run out. Since the ones making these decisions are local officials, copying another city’s regulation is easier than doing a serious study of real parking needs. Nobody ever thought very systemically about this until the whole thing had been in place throughout suburban America for years.

giarc 9y ago

A bowling alley with no parking quickly stops being a bowling alley. The city has an interest in ensuring businesses remain in business so they can continue to collect taxes from them.

linkregister 9y ago

I lived in a city that had a revival of its industrial area. There was no parking garage for the new bars and restaurants, so all visitors simply parked in the residents' neighborhoods. Quality of life drastically declined for those residents, and I ended up having to leave due to family members being unable to find parking in under 30 minutes in the evening. Public transit in the city was underfunded so it was only realistic for certain commutes within the city. I have no idea why suburban Cupertino would be worried about this risk; it sounds like an underhanded way to limit occupancy and capacity (you build a 1000-person office instead of 2000, because you had to have extra space for parking).

jseliger 9y ago
There was no parking garage for the new bars and restaurants, so all visitors simply parked in the residents' neighborhoods This is a solved problem: Charge for parking and the shortage goes away. Meter technology is decades old and well understood. https://www.amazon.com/High-Cost-Free-Parking-Updated/dp/193236496X https://www.amazon.com/High-Cost-Free-Parking-Updated/dp/193...
- linkregister 9y ago
  When you become dictator, maybe that will be viable. In the meantime, what sane city council member is going to tell residents they need to pay for parking in front of their own townhouses?
  - valuearb 9y ago
    Everyone would jump on board if the city would just allocate the parking revenues to the home or building owners.
    - linkregister 9y ago
      Where has this successfully been implemented? There's a similar mechanism to what you proposed, resident-only parking permits. This pits the business owners against the residents. It also means that a resident can't have their friends come to visit without risking a ticket. The knee-jerk HN-ism of quick fixes doesn't work here. The only actual solution is the long-term dual-pronged approach: parking structures in the interim, while improving public transit coverage overall.
      - jseliger 9y ago
        Japan, for one: http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2016/08/the-japanese-zoning-system.html http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2016/08/the.... Washington State also makes some zoning decisions and targets some growth targets at the state level (see http://digitalcommons.law.seattleu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1728&context=sulr http://digitalcommons.law.seattleu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?a..., although I can't find a better piece off the top of my head), which helps matters. The only actual solution is the long-term dual-pronged approach: parking structures in the interim, while improving public transit coverage overall. The actual solution is people paying for what they use, i.e. markets: If people want parking structures, they'll pay for them. I'd really suggest that you look at the link in the comment I posted above.

aetherson 9y ago

The theory is that street or public or other not-specific-to-this-business parking is a commons, and that absent regulation, everyone will try to maximize their share of the commons even to the detriment of all.

pchristensen 9y ago

So the customers of the popular bowling alley don't park in the parking lot of the neighboring businesses. It's forcing every business to play nice with their neighbors, rather than free-ride off of them. Most mall parking lots are sized for the demand of the busiest day of the Christmas shopping season, and are consequently underused for most of the year.

jdavis703 9y ago
Well then the next door business can either charge for parking and offer free parking validation after you buy something, or just have a tow truck waiting to tow people who park and don't enter the premises.
- kylec 9y ago
  So, shift the burden to the business that actually paid to create enough parking for their customers?
  - mikelward 9y ago
    Either that or keep building lots of parking, ensuring private cars are the only option. Choose your poison.
- redial 9y ago
  Not everyone wants to be in the parking-lot business.
- pchristensen 9y ago
  I'm not saying it's the right solution (I'm in favor of dynamic pricing of parking - google "Donald Shoup" for more info). But I got a degree in Urban Planning and that's what I learned was the rationale for municipal minimum parking requirements. Keep in mind, the US had 200 million fewer people in 1945. More of America has been built since WWII than existed during it.

smackfu 9y ago

I've seen cities use these parking requirements to de facto give the zoning board more power over development. A downtown business might be required to have 10 parking spots but the city doesn't even want anyone to build parking lots so they will give an exception... after demanding changes to the design.