6 ms·

Imagine how revolutionary a robot would be that could simply walk around, pick things up, and set things down. "Herbert: grab my car keys." "Herbert: set the d

Imagine how revolutionary a robot would be that could simply walk around, pick things up, and set things down. "Herbert: grab my car keys." "Herbert: set the dinner table." "Herbert: put the mail in the mailbox." Obviously, cost will be a big deal, but I think we'll get there.

shahbaby 9y ago
Once we reach that point, the robot will be running on a far more advanced algorithm, closer to the one you're using. Consequences will likely be as profound and unpredictable as the internet turned out to be.
- mikeash 9y ago
  If the internet is any guide, such a robot would find itself being used mostly for petting, feeding, and playing with cats.
  - cryptarch 9y ago
    I think you're forgetting something... Herbert: oh, touch me there <3
    - jacobush 9y ago
      subset of petting
- xj9 9y ago
  what happens when the bot gets tired of being your slave?
  - gboudrias 9y ago
    Probably best not to code that in.
    - Houshalter 9y ago
      It's a general artificial intelligence. You don't need to code it to do anything! It will learn to conquer puny humans all on it's own.
  - namaemuta 9y ago
    "Tired" is a human feeling. A robot would never be tired of doing anything.
    - xj9 9y ago
      ok, what happens when the bot decides it isn't in its best interest to continue to be your slave?
- robotresearcher 9y ago
  > Once we reach that point, the robot will be running on a far more advanced algorithm, closer to the one you're using. I'm using one algorithm? That's a rather controversial claim. And it's advanced? How so?
  - IanCal 9y ago
    Is it a particularly controversial claim? You can describe any collection of algorithms as a single, more complicated, one. And it seems reasonable to say that humans are quite advanced given we can't yet replicate some of their reasoning capabilities.
sillysaurus3 9y ago
The central problem with this idea is noise and creepiness. Nobody wants a noisy robot, and roboticists tend to produce creepy ones. Both problems might be solvable, but I think robotics tends to focus on the technical problems at the exclusion of the aesthetics. It's definitely a startup idea.
- bitdivision 9y ago
  Do you mean acoustic noise? Both noise and aesthetics are far simpler problems to solve than autonomous learning. I don't think there's much of a market for realistic, quiet robots until the central problem has been solved.
- grzm 9y ago
  What you're describing are separate concerns that I'm sure will be addressed before they're brought to market. Currently they're focussed on getting the robot to be able to learn from example. Spending a lot of time on aesthetics at the expense of getting the learning to work doesn't make sense at this point. You're exactly right that they're focussing on the technical problems: that's what needs to be solved. Once it works as expected, then they can focus on improving the aesthetics. A startup that focussed on making robots that look good but aren't effective at accomplishing tasks would likely have a very limited market.
  - sillysaurus3 9y ago
    Yeah, fair enough. I was thinking that BigDog was an example of this that works today, but the military passed on it because it was too noisy. But it didn't really do anything but move around.
- enraged_camel 9y ago
  That's because the aesthetics are relatively easy to improve once the difficult technical problems are solved. We're still in the research phase, so polish isn't important (unless perhaps if giving a demo to an outside investor who isn't tech-savvy).
- Herodotus38 9y ago
gnaritas 9y ago
> "Herbert: grab my car keys." "Herbert: set the dinner table." "Herbert: put the mail in the mailbox." Doing that requires far more than simply being able to pick things up and put things down and walk around. To do that requires nearly human level AI that can "understand".
- Houshalter 9y ago
  Not really. You just need some basic natural language processing to recognize what task needs to be done. There's some stuff like this already: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54HpAmzaIbs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54HpAmzaIbs
  - gnaritas 9y ago
    No, really. Natural language processing isn't going to allow it to see and recognize the thing, nor navigate to the thing; it'll take vastly more complication than the OP implied to do something as simple as pick up something when instructed.
  - fooker 9y ago
    "Grab my son from his play room."
d--b 9y ago
Yes but to get to that point, Herbert needs to know the physics of the world, cause the mail may be under the kid's football which would drop on the floor of the mail is pulled and bounce around and break some things. And the robots also needs to know about making the right decision: is it better to let the ball break the China vase than making a move that would hit the dog in the face even not very hard? In order to get there, you need a robot that knows a lot of stuff.
- tdb7893 9y ago
  I think for the example with the China you would just have it do it's best to avoid things and if it breaks stuff then it breaks stuff. Unless you're robot breaks a ton of stuff in normal operation I don't see how being unable to choose between different things to break being a large issue
  - j2kun 9y ago
    Having to anticipate how the robot will screw up and reorganize your life based around that is a big issue. It's a big enough reason for people to decide they need to give up a dog they love, and people love dogs a lot more than they love robots.
    - anonymfus 9y ago
      But benefits of having dogs are mostly psychological and so dog owners are a minority. Since robots will have economical benefits people will use them even if it will make their lives worse.
- ulber 9y ago
  This is placing a much higher standard on robots than humans are held to: to demonstrate that robots have to make hard decisions you presented a scenario where a human making either decision would have socially acceptable justifications available. But that just may be the key: maybe robots don't have to have superhuman decision making as long as they can produce humanly acceptable justifications for their decisions. That might still be hard, but at least you don't have to do that in a split second.
ragebol 9y ago
This is actually getting there, at a competition called RoboCup@Home [0] Some videos from that competition: - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jmsFmXzyzk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jmsFmXzyzk - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Csd9USPxpDs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Csd9USPxpDs [0] https://github.com/RoboCupAtHome/RuleBook https://github.com/RoboCupAtHome/RuleBook

shahbaby 9y ago

Once we reach that point, the robot will be running on a far more advanced algorithm, closer to the one you're using. Consequences will likely be as profound and unpredictable as the internet turned out to be.

mikeash 9y ago
If the internet is any guide, such a robot would find itself being used mostly for petting, feeding, and playing with cats.
- cryptarch 9y ago
  I think you're forgetting something... Herbert: oh, touch me there <3
  - jacobush 9y ago
    subset of petting
xj9 9y ago
what happens when the bot gets tired of being your slave?
- gboudrias 9y ago
  Probably best not to code that in.
  - Houshalter 9y ago
    It's a general artificial intelligence. You don't need to code it to do anything! It will learn to conquer puny humans all on it's own.
- namaemuta 9y ago
  "Tired" is a human feeling. A robot would never be tired of doing anything.
  - xj9 9y ago
    ok, what happens when the bot decides it isn't in its best interest to continue to be your slave?
robotresearcher 9y ago
> Once we reach that point, the robot will be running on a far more advanced algorithm, closer to the one you're using. I'm using one algorithm? That's a rather controversial claim. And it's advanced? How so?
- IanCal 9y ago
  Is it a particularly controversial claim? You can describe any collection of algorithms as a single, more complicated, one. And it seems reasonable to say that humans are quite advanced given we can't yet replicate some of their reasoning capabilities.

sillysaurus3 9y ago

The central problem with this idea is noise and creepiness. Nobody wants a noisy robot, and roboticists tend to produce creepy ones. Both problems might be solvable, but I think robotics tends to focus on the technical problems at the exclusion of the aesthetics. It's definitely a startup idea.

bitdivision 9y ago
Do you mean acoustic noise? Both noise and aesthetics are far simpler problems to solve than autonomous learning. I don't think there's much of a market for realistic, quiet robots until the central problem has been solved.
grzm 9y ago
What you're describing are separate concerns that I'm sure will be addressed before they're brought to market. Currently they're focussed on getting the robot to be able to learn from example. Spending a lot of time on aesthetics at the expense of getting the learning to work doesn't make sense at this point. You're exactly right that they're focussing on the technical problems: that's what needs to be solved. Once it works as expected, then they can focus on improving the aesthetics. A startup that focussed on making robots that look good but aren't effective at accomplishing tasks would likely have a very limited market.
- sillysaurus3 9y ago
  Yeah, fair enough. I was thinking that BigDog was an example of this that works today, but the military passed on it because it was too noisy. But it didn't really do anything but move around.
enraged_camel 9y ago
That's because the aesthetics are relatively easy to improve once the difficult technical problems are solved. We're still in the research phase, so polish isn't important (unless perhaps if giving a demo to an outside investor who isn't tech-savvy).
Herodotus38 9y ago

gnaritas 9y ago

> "Herbert: grab my car keys." "Herbert: set the dinner table." "Herbert: put the mail in the mailbox." Doing that requires far more than simply being able to pick things up and put things down and walk around. To do that requires nearly human level AI that can "understand".

Houshalter 9y ago
Not really. You just need some basic natural language processing to recognize what task needs to be done. There's some stuff like this already: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54HpAmzaIbs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54HpAmzaIbs
- gnaritas 9y ago
  No, really. Natural language processing isn't going to allow it to see and recognize the thing, nor navigate to the thing; it'll take vastly more complication than the OP implied to do something as simple as pick up something when instructed.
- fooker 9y ago
  "Grab my son from his play room."

d--b 9y ago

Yes but to get to that point, Herbert needs to know the physics of the world, cause the mail may be under the kid's football which would drop on the floor of the mail is pulled and bounce around and break some things. And the robots also needs to know about making the right decision: is it better to let the ball break the China vase than making a move that would hit the dog in the face even not very hard? In order to get there, you need a robot that knows a lot of stuff.

tdb7893 9y ago
I think for the example with the China you would just have it do it's best to avoid things and if it breaks stuff then it breaks stuff. Unless you're robot breaks a ton of stuff in normal operation I don't see how being unable to choose between different things to break being a large issue
- j2kun 9y ago
  Having to anticipate how the robot will screw up and reorganize your life based around that is a big issue. It's a big enough reason for people to decide they need to give up a dog they love, and people love dogs a lot more than they love robots.
  - anonymfus 9y ago
    But benefits of having dogs are mostly psychological and so dog owners are a minority. Since robots will have economical benefits people will use them even if it will make their lives worse.
ulber 9y ago
This is placing a much higher standard on robots than humans are held to: to demonstrate that robots have to make hard decisions you presented a scenario where a human making either decision would have socially acceptable justifications available. But that just may be the key: maybe robots don't have to have superhuman decision making as long as they can produce humanly acceptable justifications for their decisions. That might still be hard, but at least you don't have to do that in a split second.

ragebol 9y ago

This is actually getting there, at a competition called RoboCup@Home [0] Some videos from that competition: - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jmsFmXzyzk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jmsFmXzyzk - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Csd9USPxpDs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Csd9USPxpDs [0] https://github.com/RoboCupAtHome/RuleBook https://github.com/RoboCupAtHome/RuleBook