7 ms·

Without spoiling anything (I hope) for those that haven't yet seen Alien Covenant, there are lot of similitudes between that script and the new movies, it's alm

by jvzr 9y ago

Without spoiling anything (I hope) for those that haven't yet seen Alien Covenant, there are lot of similitudes between that script and the new movies, it's almost uncanny.

talmand 9y ago
Much of what I read in the article about what he wrote reminds me heavily of Alien: Resurrection.
- ekianjo 9y ago
  > Alien: Resurrection. That was a really, really bad movie. Jeunet had absolutely no idea what he was doing directing that movie.
  - badosu 9y ago
    I find it no worse than Alien 3, at least it had some aesthetic style.
    - ethbro 9y ago
      I think the key here, in retrospect, is that this would have been Gibson in his 30s, immediately after writing Count Zero (and Neuromancer before that). I can't think of a better thematic match to continue on from Aliens. Also incredibly annoyed that the noted reason it got shot down was "not being innovative enough." I feel like most movies die from overly innovative scripts, whereas most of the classics, reduced to script form, are really simple ideas executed well. I mean, &#(@, look at the script for Alien and Aliens.
      - badosu 9y ago
        > I mean, &#(@, look at the script for Alien and Aliens. I am a huge Alien fan, but I can't understand the fascination with Aliens, it always seemed like a cheap action movie when compared with the true psychological horror of the first one.
        Touche 9y ago
        I think it's just that people have seen Aliens more, because it's easier to jump into it and have a good time, laugh at the "Game over man" scene, etc. Whereas with Alien you are on the edge of your seat the entire time. Much more draining. Aliens is a bit different from your typical action movie in that the heroes are getting their butts kicked the entire time. The only time where the heroes really had a fist-pump moment was when the 2 sacrificed themselves by blowing up a bomb and taking out a couple of aliens.
        ekianjo 9y ago
        > Aliens is a bit different from your typical action movie in that the heroes are getting their butts kicked the entire time Yeah, especially the first scene at the beginning when they start to get into the Alien lair and get their ass massively kicked. That whole scene was awesome from beginning to end.
        ethbro 9y ago
        Alien always reminded me of Japanese horror (implied), whereas Aliens was Western (shown).
        maxerickson 9y ago
        Here's a scene from Alien known as the "chestburster": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsD6AL3HJtM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsD6AL3HJtM (it's plenty graphic)
        nkrisc 9y ago
        It's also one of the only such moments in the movie where you clearly see the horror and gore. You've cherry-picked the one contradiction.
        jfoutz 9y ago
        30 years later Aliens looks like a cliché action movie. I think it looks that way because it set a lot of standards for action movies. Poke around at popular action movies from the early 80's. Aliens has no Star Wars mysticism. Aliens lacks Star Trek optimism. It's not 'a guy with a grudge' like Rambo or Commando or any of a dozen others. It certainly pulled from old westerns and war movies, but did it in a (imho) pretty innovative way.
    - Touche 9y ago
      Agreed. Alien 3's problem was that it came out when every action movie thought it needed CGI, even though CGI wasn't ready at the time. So scenes with the aliens look comically bad, like a cheap video game.
      - hmstx 9y ago
        I'm not sure whether you mean the alien shots look bad because they had to use primitive CGI? That movie's pretty much all man-in-suit and practical props, with a number of shots using rod puppets on blue screen. Those shots do look bad, but it's because of the bad compositing (not sure if optical compositing or bad, early digital compositing, the blacks and matte lines are horrible). True CGI would have looked and moved worse. There's pretty much one CGI shot in there though, and that's when the alien's head dome crackles under thermal shock in the foundry (looks like CGI crackles comped onto man-in-suit plate, from memory). Haven't watched the "behind the scenes DVD" features in a couple years though. I think it even has Richard Edlund and Tom Woodruff talking about how they were one of the last movies to do most everything the old way at that time. I'd say Alien 3's bigger problem is the development hell it suffered from, as mentioned by others.
        Touche 9y ago
        Thank you for the info! Very interesting. I always though it was bad CGI, couldn't imagine it was anything else.
      - ekianjo 9y ago
        > even though CGI wasn't ready at the time. Excuse me ? Terminator 2 came out in the very same year, and had fantastic CGI. It's just a matter of who works on them, even at the time.
mmjaa 9y ago
I had a copy of the script once, when I lived in Hollywood. It was an awesome coffee-table curio, which more than a few of my friends begged to borrow (I denied). Before the franchise expanded to its current form, it really was something I thought I'd see turned into a production at some point, being a Gibson fanboix. That said, I look forward to seeing the new Alien Covenant and noting the inspiration that is no doubt to be found.
- m-i-l 9y ago
  I remember reading this script on a Usenet Newsgroup a long time ago. I think it was rec.arts.sf.movies. A quick search returns https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/rec.arts.sf.movies/XqLap-8BGGk/PMqAEjv89d8J https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/rec.arts.sf.movies/XqL... with some comments. It seems like a place called the "Pix Poster Cellar" was selling "a photostat of a photostat of a typewritten screen-play" but the store burned down in 1993.
- wnkrshm 9y ago
  I found the Gibson script (which version though I don't know) a few years ago and read it - it was indexed by google.
Shivetya 9y ago
well the current fave of many on SyFy; The Expanse; has its own alien life that can propagate by touch and airborne means. While not creating acid spewing monsters of its own the humans do a good job trying to make super soldiers from something they don't fully understand. Even better, even that form it still keeps to its own agenda
- cwingrav 9y ago
  This was my first thought when I read this article. It seems someone there read Alien III before creating the Expanse, and then greatly added to it. I'm so glad I started watching the Expanse and hope it continues to improve.
  - ethbro 9y ago
    Second season was just as good as the first, for me!
    - throwanem 9y ago
      I can't get into details without spoiling both seasons of the show and some pretty considerable plot turns in Caliban's War and possibly Abaddon's Gate as well - but I will say that I've been really disappointed with the way the latter half of the second season, in particular, has turned some major characters into absurd caricatures of themselves. I don't know whether I'd feel the same way if I hadn't read the novels, but considering that I've long since lost patience with writers who waste my time or insult my intelligence or both, I suspect strongly that I would. In any case, if you're uncertain over whether to read the novels or watch the series, and intend to invest time in only one of the two - go with the novels. The show has impressive space visuals, I give it that unreservedly - but in every other respect, the novels outdo the show to a frankly embarrassing degree.
      - ethbro 9y ago
        Will definitely give the books a try then. Agreed there there was some stilted dialog and testing the limits of character believability for purposes of plot movement. But all in all I still enjoyed the pacing. (Trying to word this ambigiously) I think the political side was better done than the micro. (Also, Shohreh Aghdashloo is a great actress)

by jvzr 9y ago

Without spoiling anything (I hope) for those that haven't yet seen Alien Covenant, there are lot of similitudes between that script and the new movies, it's almost uncanny.

talmand 9y ago

Much of what I read in the article about what he wrote reminds me heavily of Alien: Resurrection.

ekianjo 9y ago
> Alien: Resurrection. That was a really, really bad movie. Jeunet had absolutely no idea what he was doing directing that movie.
- badosu 9y ago
  I find it no worse than Alien 3, at least it had some aesthetic style.
  - ethbro 9y ago
    I think the key here, in retrospect, is that this would have been Gibson in his 30s, immediately after writing Count Zero (and Neuromancer before that). I can't think of a better thematic match to continue on from Aliens. Also incredibly annoyed that the noted reason it got shot down was "not being innovative enough." I feel like most movies die from overly innovative scripts, whereas most of the classics, reduced to script form, are really simple ideas executed well. I mean, &#(@, look at the script for Alien and Aliens.
    - badosu 9y ago
      > I mean, &#(@, look at the script for Alien and Aliens. I am a huge Alien fan, but I can't understand the fascination with Aliens, it always seemed like a cheap action movie when compared with the true psychological horror of the first one.
      - Touche 9y ago
        I think it's just that people have seen Aliens more, because it's easier to jump into it and have a good time, laugh at the "Game over man" scene, etc. Whereas with Alien you are on the edge of your seat the entire time. Much more draining. Aliens is a bit different from your typical action movie in that the heroes are getting their butts kicked the entire time. The only time where the heroes really had a fist-pump moment was when the 2 sacrificed themselves by blowing up a bomb and taking out a couple of aliens.
        ekianjo 9y ago
        > Aliens is a bit different from your typical action movie in that the heroes are getting their butts kicked the entire time Yeah, especially the first scene at the beginning when they start to get into the Alien lair and get their ass massively kicked. That whole scene was awesome from beginning to end.
      - ethbro 9y ago
        Alien always reminded me of Japanese horror (implied), whereas Aliens was Western (shown).
        maxerickson 9y ago
        Here's a scene from Alien known as the "chestburster": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsD6AL3HJtM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsD6AL3HJtM (it's plenty graphic)
        nkrisc 9y ago
        It's also one of the only such moments in the movie where you clearly see the horror and gore. You've cherry-picked the one contradiction.
      - jfoutz 9y ago
        30 years later Aliens looks like a cliché action movie. I think it looks that way because it set a lot of standards for action movies. Poke around at popular action movies from the early 80's. Aliens has no Star Wars mysticism. Aliens lacks Star Trek optimism. It's not 'a guy with a grudge' like Rambo or Commando or any of a dozen others. It certainly pulled from old westerns and war movies, but did it in a (imho) pretty innovative way.
  - Touche 9y ago
    Agreed. Alien 3's problem was that it came out when every action movie thought it needed CGI, even though CGI wasn't ready at the time. So scenes with the aliens look comically bad, like a cheap video game.
    - hmstx 9y ago
      I'm not sure whether you mean the alien shots look bad because they had to use primitive CGI? That movie's pretty much all man-in-suit and practical props, with a number of shots using rod puppets on blue screen. Those shots do look bad, but it's because of the bad compositing (not sure if optical compositing or bad, early digital compositing, the blacks and matte lines are horrible). True CGI would have looked and moved worse. There's pretty much one CGI shot in there though, and that's when the alien's head dome crackles under thermal shock in the foundry (looks like CGI crackles comped onto man-in-suit plate, from memory). Haven't watched the "behind the scenes DVD" features in a couple years though. I think it even has Richard Edlund and Tom Woodruff talking about how they were one of the last movies to do most everything the old way at that time. I'd say Alien 3's bigger problem is the development hell it suffered from, as mentioned by others.
      - Touche 9y ago
        Thank you for the info! Very interesting. I always though it was bad CGI, couldn't imagine it was anything else.
    - ekianjo 9y ago
      > even though CGI wasn't ready at the time. Excuse me ? Terminator 2 came out in the very same year, and had fantastic CGI. It's just a matter of who works on them, even at the time.

mmjaa 9y ago

I had a copy of the script once, when I lived in Hollywood. It was an awesome coffee-table curio, which more than a few of my friends begged to borrow (I denied). Before the franchise expanded to its current form, it really was something I thought I'd see turned into a production at some point, being a Gibson fanboix. That said, I look forward to seeing the new Alien Covenant and noting the inspiration that is no doubt to be found.

m-i-l 9y ago
I remember reading this script on a Usenet Newsgroup a long time ago. I think it was rec.arts.sf.movies. A quick search returns https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/rec.arts.sf.movies/XqLap-8BGGk/PMqAEjv89d8J https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/rec.arts.sf.movies/XqL... with some comments. It seems like a place called the "Pix Poster Cellar" was selling "a photostat of a photostat of a typewritten screen-play" but the store burned down in 1993.
wnkrshm 9y ago
I found the Gibson script (which version though I don't know) a few years ago and read it - it was indexed by google.

Shivetya 9y ago

well the current fave of many on SyFy; The Expanse; has its own alien life that can propagate by touch and airborne means. While not creating acid spewing monsters of its own the humans do a good job trying to make super soldiers from something they don't fully understand. Even better, even that form it still keeps to its own agenda

cwingrav 9y ago
This was my first thought when I read this article. It seems someone there read Alien III before creating the Expanse, and then greatly added to it. I'm so glad I started watching the Expanse and hope it continues to improve.
- ethbro 9y ago
  Second season was just as good as the first, for me!
  - throwanem 9y ago
    I can't get into details without spoiling both seasons of the show and some pretty considerable plot turns in Caliban's War and possibly Abaddon's Gate as well - but I will say that I've been really disappointed with the way the latter half of the second season, in particular, has turned some major characters into absurd caricatures of themselves. I don't know whether I'd feel the same way if I hadn't read the novels, but considering that I've long since lost patience with writers who waste my time or insult my intelligence or both, I suspect strongly that I would. In any case, if you're uncertain over whether to read the novels or watch the series, and intend to invest time in only one of the two - go with the novels. The show has impressive space visuals, I give it that unreservedly - but in every other respect, the novels outdo the show to a frankly embarrassing degree.
    - ethbro 9y ago
      Will definitely give the books a try then. Agreed there there was some stilted dialog and testing the limits of character believability for purposes of plot movement. But all in all I still enjoyed the pacing. (Trying to word this ambigiously) I think the political side was better done than the micro. (Also, Shohreh Aghdashloo is a great actress)