5 ms·

Microsoft’s Fluent Design System threatens to make Windows look good

33 points by nnx 9y ago

mc32 9y ago
Can only wish they have their ducks in a row with regard to trademarking the design language. That said, hope there is less wasted space than in the material design card motif. And as always, just glad no one is taking a cue from Kai's power tools's design language.
- anotheryou 9y ago
  Cards are easy to implement in design. The bordlerless MS-stuff might be more problematic for less simmilar blocks (e.g. more dynamic text-length and not all details always shown)
- WorldMaker 9y ago
  From what I've heard they definitely did the pattern search before arriving at "Fluent" this time because they didn't want a repeat of the "Metro" problem. (Rumor has it that the project name of "Neon" also didn't pass a trademark search, though I'm not sure they would have contemplated that as a final name because I'm not sure it fits well with what they've released.)
bobbington 9y ago
In my humble opinion windows has always done a great job looking good. I think their designers are the best
jsiepkes 9y ago
But is it going to be applied consistently to all MS products like material design at Google?
- pawadu 9y ago
  > ... consistently ... like material design at Google Even if you limit material design to the top bar and the hamburger menu I would say only half of Googles own apps correctly follow the MD design recommendations. Case in point: in some google apps the hamburger menu slides out below the top bar, in some above it.
- adiabatty 9y ago
  From your fingers to Nadella's eyeballs, but Microsoft will probably move 65% of its stuff to this style before moving on to the next big thing. I think it looks cool, but I'd want to see Computer Management done in this style in a way that doesn't aggravate administrators. Mockups are nice, but I'd like to see a design language that works just as well for those who have information-dense needs.
  - maxxxxx 9y ago
    65% randomly distributed sounds about right. Whenever I am using windows 10 I am surprised that they still haven't cleaned up the control panel.
    - WorldMaker 9y ago
      I think they've passed the point where the majority of things to control are now easily accessible in Windows 10's Settings app. Certainly I've switched my habits to start there when looking for a setting and very rarely ever see the Control Panel, but I know it will take a while for everyone to pick up that habit.
      - maxxxxx 9y ago
        It's getting better but I don't understand why they still haven't converter everything. It can't be that hard to rewrite some dialogs.
        WorldMaker 9y ago
        You see all the developers out there complaining that Microsoft will take ancient Win32 from their cold dead hands and complaining about how hard it will be to port their darlings to UWP? It took a decade to develop all the applets in the Control Panel in the first place. While I don't think the conversion is as hard as some developers like to complain it is, it's certainly not as easy as just clicking a few boxes in a 1998-style Wizard to convert from old dialogs to new ones.
yakult 9y ago
Many of the apps shown have a humongous banner element that does nothing and take up nearly a third of the screen space. This might be unintentional and not part of the design language, but the fact that it wasn't caught before press release doesn't fill me with confidence. That and the fact that every single MS UI has sucked really bad and in very obvious ways ever since XP.
- pawadu 9y ago
  Some first party windows app currently do this on the front page (front window?) but once you get to the content (e.g. open an email) they adapt by minimizing the dead space. Works pretty good but must be really hard to code.
  - WorldMaker 9y ago
    Giant banners draw the eyes to exciting things. It's not really "dead" space: it's alive space that brings the eye to what's happening or what's new/fresh or what's about to go on. You see it plenty on the web. Just like you often see on the web when used this way, the spaces change as you interact with them: they disappear as you navigate deeper into the site, they shrink as you scroll a bit down, etc. (They aren't that complicated to code in either XAML or HTML/CSS, the two markup languages used for this.)
    - yakult 9y ago
      This is a bad idea. Not only is it useless and take up a lot of space, it now moves as I interact with the page, further distracts me from the content that I'm interested in. Especially egregious on mobile if it pops back up again when I scroll up, then sort of bobs up and down if I press and hold at just the right spot. >it's alive space that brings the eye to what's happening or what's new/fresh or what's about to go on. That's the misalignment of interest right there. The devs would love to have their users focus on "what's new", i.e. ads and self promotion. The users give on average zero shits and just want the functionality they came for. I guess we all know which side MS is on.
norea-armozel 9y ago
I must be in the minority but I think the design looks too empty. I really don't understand why so many UI designs fear putting in some depth or color to demarcate where certain elements begin/end. Mind you, I prefer subjectively uglier UIs like Windows 95/98's or Mac OS 9. I just think GUIs should look like something even if that something doesn't exist anymore.

33 points by nnx 9y ago

mc32 9y ago

Can only wish they have their ducks in a row with regard to trademarking the design language. That said, hope there is less wasted space than in the material design card motif. And as always, just glad no one is taking a cue from Kai's power tools's design language.

anotheryou 9y ago
Cards are easy to implement in design. The bordlerless MS-stuff might be more problematic for less simmilar blocks (e.g. more dynamic text-length and not all details always shown)
WorldMaker 9y ago
From what I've heard they definitely did the pattern search before arriving at "Fluent" this time because they didn't want a repeat of the "Metro" problem. (Rumor has it that the project name of "Neon" also didn't pass a trademark search, though I'm not sure they would have contemplated that as a final name because I'm not sure it fits well with what they've released.)

bobbington 9y ago

In my humble opinion windows has always done a great job looking good. I think their designers are the best

jsiepkes 9y ago

But is it going to be applied consistently to all MS products like material design at Google?

pawadu 9y ago
> ... consistently ... like material design at Google Even if you limit material design to the top bar and the hamburger menu I would say only half of Googles own apps correctly follow the MD design recommendations. Case in point: in some google apps the hamburger menu slides out below the top bar, in some above it.
adiabatty 9y ago
From your fingers to Nadella's eyeballs, but Microsoft will probably move 65% of its stuff to this style before moving on to the next big thing. I think it looks cool, but I'd want to see Computer Management done in this style in a way that doesn't aggravate administrators. Mockups are nice, but I'd like to see a design language that works just as well for those who have information-dense needs.
- maxxxxx 9y ago
  65% randomly distributed sounds about right. Whenever I am using windows 10 I am surprised that they still haven't cleaned up the control panel.
  - WorldMaker 9y ago
    I think they've passed the point where the majority of things to control are now easily accessible in Windows 10's Settings app. Certainly I've switched my habits to start there when looking for a setting and very rarely ever see the Control Panel, but I know it will take a while for everyone to pick up that habit.
    - maxxxxx 9y ago
      It's getting better but I don't understand why they still haven't converter everything. It can't be that hard to rewrite some dialogs.
      - WorldMaker 9y ago
        You see all the developers out there complaining that Microsoft will take ancient Win32 from their cold dead hands and complaining about how hard it will be to port their darlings to UWP? It took a decade to develop all the applets in the Control Panel in the first place. While I don't think the conversion is as hard as some developers like to complain it is, it's certainly not as easy as just clicking a few boxes in a 1998-style Wizard to convert from old dialogs to new ones.

yakult 9y ago

Many of the apps shown have a humongous banner element that does nothing and take up nearly a third of the screen space. This might be unintentional and not part of the design language, but the fact that it wasn't caught before press release doesn't fill me with confidence. That and the fact that every single MS UI has sucked really bad and in very obvious ways ever since XP.

pawadu 9y ago
Some first party windows app currently do this on the front page (front window?) but once you get to the content (e.g. open an email) they adapt by minimizing the dead space. Works pretty good but must be really hard to code.
- WorldMaker 9y ago
  Giant banners draw the eyes to exciting things. It's not really "dead" space: it's alive space that brings the eye to what's happening or what's new/fresh or what's about to go on. You see it plenty on the web. Just like you often see on the web when used this way, the spaces change as you interact with them: they disappear as you navigate deeper into the site, they shrink as you scroll a bit down, etc. (They aren't that complicated to code in either XAML or HTML/CSS, the two markup languages used for this.)
  - yakult 9y ago
    This is a bad idea. Not only is it useless and take up a lot of space, it now moves as I interact with the page, further distracts me from the content that I'm interested in. Especially egregious on mobile if it pops back up again when I scroll up, then sort of bobs up and down if I press and hold at just the right spot. >it's alive space that brings the eye to what's happening or what's new/fresh or what's about to go on. That's the misalignment of interest right there. The devs would love to have their users focus on "what's new", i.e. ads and self promotion. The users give on average zero shits and just want the functionality they came for. I guess we all know which side MS is on.

norea-armozel 9y ago

I must be in the minority but I think the design looks too empty. I really don't understand why so many UI designs fear putting in some depth or color to demarcate where certain elements begin/end. Mind you, I prefer subjectively uglier UIs like Windows 95/98's or Mac OS 9. I just think GUIs should look like something even if that something doesn't exist anymore.