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>>People by nature I think are very externally motivated (society, wealth, materialism)and if you didn't make people go to work, would they? If they did, would

>>People by nature I think are very externally motivated (society, wealth, materialism)and if you didn't make people go to work, would they? If they did, would they still put up with the crappy parts of it? Is this not just a function of upbringing and experience? There are many creative types for whom motivation is completely internal, that producing the "perfect" symphony is driven by internal desires completely divorced from any acclaim (or criticism) that it may attract. I think the other question that needs to be addressed is that we seem to be specifically talking about paid work. Some of the most difficult "work" I have done recently has been working on clearing and renovating our back yard garden. All unpaid. You only have to look at the actions of the many very rich philanthropists who spend their time working for the greater good. I would admit that in a lot of cases they have gained their wealth through hard work (paid type), but their are many who have inherited wealth and still work (unpaid) long hours for the greater good. I think the big difference between those who when faced with no (paid) work and given the resources to live, who will do nothing and those who will look around for something useful to do will be education. When people are shown that there is useful fulfilling activity that can be done even when you don't have to put bread on the table, and are given the skills to work creatively, I think many, if not most will step up and take on activity (lets call it work) that will extend our society in ways we cannot now imagine.

cbanek 9y ago
I don't disagree with any of that - but right now with today's culture, I think it'd be a huge shock. I can only imagine what kind of rap music would be made about UBI. Plus, if people didn't have a job, or have to hustle, they could also further their education, leading back into a virtuous cycle of productivity through better education. Overall I agree with time the culture would definitely shift (probably the value of work would change a lot, not anymore based on $, but maybe more like art?), and the optimist in me thinks that we'd be fine. We might even end up less selfish if there's enough for all. The pessimist in me says that the whole evolutionary nature to compete (even destructively) might take over some people, while other people would wither away with no purpose (kind of like the pax in firefly).
- dragonsky67 9y ago
  As you say there is risk of dramatic negative impact with people losing a sense of purpose and drive. If I were an author I could think of a number of scenarios that would result; Religious fanaticism, drug dependence and general apathy. hmm sounds like what we have today. As for a lot of things, education can be an answer. Show people that the way things have always been done is not the only way to do it and you can open a world of possibilities. You also have to scaffold this with actual real opportunity before some will be able to lift themselves. I dream of the day when the question"What did you do today?" will typically lead to something other than, commute, boring work, commute, sleep.
  - Tharkun 9y ago
    You might enjoy reading Michael Moorcock's Elric of Melniboné series. It's in part about a society that spends most of its time high as a kite, and its inevitable downfall.
- Mediterraneo10 9y ago
  > I can only imagine what kind of rap music would be made about UBI. The first track on Roots Manuva's recent album Bleeds, "Hard Bastards", in fact deals with this. In Britain, the dole is sufficient enough that whole successive generations can live on it. Roots Manuva still deplores the situation, because while no one starves these days, the masses are still denied any political power and pulling themselves out of their state proves an immense challenge in a very rigid class society.

cbanek 9y ago

I don't disagree with any of that - but right now with today's culture, I think it'd be a huge shock. I can only imagine what kind of rap music would be made about UBI. Plus, if people didn't have a job, or have to hustle, they could also further their education, leading back into a virtuous cycle of productivity through better education. Overall I agree with time the culture would definitely shift (probably the value of work would change a lot, not anymore based on $, but maybe more like art?), and the optimist in me thinks that we'd be fine. We might even end up less selfish if there's enough for all. The pessimist in me says that the whole evolutionary nature to compete (even destructively) might take over some people, while other people would wither away with no purpose (kind of like the pax in firefly).

dragonsky67 9y ago
As you say there is risk of dramatic negative impact with people losing a sense of purpose and drive. If I were an author I could think of a number of scenarios that would result; Religious fanaticism, drug dependence and general apathy. hmm sounds like what we have today. As for a lot of things, education can be an answer. Show people that the way things have always been done is not the only way to do it and you can open a world of possibilities. You also have to scaffold this with actual real opportunity before some will be able to lift themselves. I dream of the day when the question"What did you do today?" will typically lead to something other than, commute, boring work, commute, sleep.
- Tharkun 9y ago
  You might enjoy reading Michael Moorcock's Elric of Melniboné series. It's in part about a society that spends most of its time high as a kite, and its inevitable downfall.
Mediterraneo10 9y ago
> I can only imagine what kind of rap music would be made about UBI. The first track on Roots Manuva's recent album Bleeds, "Hard Bastards", in fact deals with this. In Britain, the dole is sufficient enough that whole successive generations can live on it. Roots Manuva still deplores the situation, because while no one starves these days, the masses are still denied any political power and pulling themselves out of their state proves an immense challenge in a very rigid class society.