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Big whoop. This kind of post pops up every few days. No business plan. No market analysis. No real idea of who will use your shopping service and why. No descri

by akadien 16y ago

Big whoop. This kind of post pops up every few days. No business plan. No market analysis. No real idea of who will use your shopping service and why. No description of value, benefits, and features. Reads like wishful thinking and dreams of grandeur. All you have is an idea and a domain name.

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
prawn 16y ago
Bit abrasive, but hard to disagree with the details of your comment. irahul, I also didn't find much in your blog post that made me think you were onto something or that it would be interesting to follow your progress. FWIW. Good luck though!
- irahul 16y ago
  Thanks for taking the time to read.
morbidkk 16y ago
well he might have some differentiators but may not want to talk about them or he'll figure out while building it up. @irahul Best luck!!!
irahul 16y ago
> No business plan. I am not going to have one ever:-). On a more serious note, I am not selling out or going to ask for capital ever. The only person that needs to be convinced of the business value is me and I am convinced. > No market analysis. And that would affect me how? If there is an existing market for it, I am tapping into it. There is an existing market; I didn't feel the need to do research to prove that people are interested in selling things online and e-commerce is hard and if you are a merchant, you are more interested in selling thing than taking the pains of implementing it. If there isn't an existing market for it(hypothetically speaking), I know people want to sell things. If they aren't selling it online already, it's only because the services aren't up to the mark, and that would be a good thing for me. > No real idea of who will use your shopping service and why. No, there isn't a real idea. The idea will change every week with the implementation and keep on changing until something clicks. But the ground rules are laid out. The service is for anyone who wants to sell things online and does not have the time/resource/interest to implement it himself. It is for you if you want to sell tee shirts with funny graffiti; it is for you if you are a writer who is embracing new media and wants to sell his ebooks; it is for you if you are selling anything online. You can either attach the widget to your existing blog/site(would be helpful for web-cartoonists or people who already run a high traffic site) or create a new store and host us with us. > No description of value, benefits, and features. Value and benefits are what I have already detailed. I have just begun and features would be finalized as we work on it. If that looks like bad planning to you, so be it. That's the mode that suits me. > Reads like wishful thinking and dreams of grandeur. We will see about it:-). > All you have is an idea and a domain name. I didn't claim otherwise.
- yesimahuman 16y ago
  Although akadien's response was a bit blunt, your response shows that you aren't willing to listen to criticism. Relax, and really try to open yourself to what other people have to say. This is something I've really been learning the last year or so running my company. You might not agree with everything everyone has to say (and you don't have to, it is your company, after all), but you do want to be successful, and you haven't been yet, so don't be so quick to get defensive when other people have feedback and criticism.
  - irahul 16y ago
    > your response shows that you aren't willing to listen to criticism. I am. But as a critic, shouldn't you be willing to listen to counter-arguments as well? After all, a discussion isn't one sided. > don't be so quick to get defensive when other people have feedback and criticism. Ummm..So what's the take-away here? I shouldn't reply back? Validity of an idea or argument is highly subjective and perceptive. akadien conveyed his thoughts and I conveyed mine without being rude or derailing the discussion. I would think that's how the discussion is supposed to work.
    - yesimahuman 16y ago
      You are getting defensive. There is a bigger lesson here (one that I have had to and still have to practice every day!) Anyways, best of luck (and I really do mean it)!
      - petervandijck 16y ago
        I actually think the dude isn't defensive, he's responding quite reasonably to someone being negative.
        yesimahuman 16y ago
        Very negative, sure, but it isn't an argument, and there are no counter-arguments to akadien's advice. He doesn't have any of those things that many people believe to be the mark of a promising business. To akadien, those things are very important. To irahul they appear not to be. Who knows, he could be successful doing it differently, no one here would be able to say one way or the other.
ryanwaggoner 16y ago
You might be right, but it's extremely disappointing to me to see upvotes collecting on such a flippant put-down of another entrepreneur sharing his first steps and excitement with the one community that should understand and be encouraging. I vaguely recall that PG talked somewhere about how one of the biggest threats to HN wasn't spam or abuse, but just a general downward spiral of incivility and mean-spiritedness. I think I know now what he was talking about.
- akadien 16y ago
  I don't think it was a flippant put-down. Nor was I being uncivil or mean-spirited. I was being frank and straightforward. I was telling him exactly what he would hear from someone in the real world if he were to pitch it. If he can't handle this kind of experience-based advice on HN, then he certainly will crumble in the real world. I honestly wish him the best of luck. With a startup idea this vague, he will need it.
  - ryanwaggoner 16y ago
    Why are trite comparisons with "the real world" (whatever that is) always the refuge of those who scorn others in public? "Well, if they can't take a little criticism from me, just wait until they hit the real world!" Give me a break. Opening your comment with "big whoop" is hardly frank or straightforward. You offered no real advice or help, and you're effectively anonymous from what I can tell, so your claims of "experience" are worthless. Your comment just reeks of a condescending snark that HN is better off without.
    - akadien 16y ago
      Ok, my experience is that my own lone-founder startup failed a couple of years ago in very large part because I didn't do the things that I claim are missing. I read the post, identified red flags that I failed at finding, and then posted them as a critique, which is what the poster asked for. I think you are taking a moral position about what should and shouldn't be the tone on HN. I might have missed it, but who elected you to determine what is or isn't "condescending snark"? And from follow-up posts by the original poster and others, it looks like I did offer some real advice. It just wasn't wrapped up in rosy and verbose language that you prefer.

by akadien 16y ago

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

prawn 16y ago

Bit abrasive, but hard to disagree with the details of your comment. irahul, I also didn't find much in your blog post that made me think you were onto something or that it would be interesting to follow your progress. FWIW. Good luck though!

irahul 16y ago
Thanks for taking the time to read.

morbidkk 16y ago

well he might have some differentiators but may not want to talk about them or he'll figure out while building it up. @irahul Best luck!!!

irahul 16y ago

> No business plan. I am not going to have one ever:-). On a more serious note, I am not selling out or going to ask for capital ever. The only person that needs to be convinced of the business value is me and I am convinced. > No market analysis. And that would affect me how? If there is an existing market for it, I am tapping into it. There is an existing market; I didn't feel the need to do research to prove that people are interested in selling things online and e-commerce is hard and if you are a merchant, you are more interested in selling thing than taking the pains of implementing it. If there isn't an existing market for it(hypothetically speaking), I know people want to sell things. If they aren't selling it online already, it's only because the services aren't up to the mark, and that would be a good thing for me. > No real idea of who will use your shopping service and why. No, there isn't a real idea. The idea will change every week with the implementation and keep on changing until something clicks. But the ground rules are laid out. The service is for anyone who wants to sell things online and does not have the time/resource/interest to implement it himself. It is for you if you want to sell tee shirts with funny graffiti; it is for you if you are a writer who is embracing new media and wants to sell his ebooks; it is for you if you are selling anything online. You can either attach the widget to your existing blog/site(would be helpful for web-cartoonists or people who already run a high traffic site) or create a new store and host us with us. > No description of value, benefits, and features. Value and benefits are what I have already detailed. I have just begun and features would be finalized as we work on it. If that looks like bad planning to you, so be it. That's the mode that suits me. > Reads like wishful thinking and dreams of grandeur. We will see about it:-). > All you have is an idea and a domain name. I didn't claim otherwise.

yesimahuman 16y ago
Although akadien's response was a bit blunt, your response shows that you aren't willing to listen to criticism. Relax, and really try to open yourself to what other people have to say. This is something I've really been learning the last year or so running my company. You might not agree with everything everyone has to say (and you don't have to, it is your company, after all), but you do want to be successful, and you haven't been yet, so don't be so quick to get defensive when other people have feedback and criticism.
- irahul 16y ago
  > your response shows that you aren't willing to listen to criticism. I am. But as a critic, shouldn't you be willing to listen to counter-arguments as well? After all, a discussion isn't one sided. > don't be so quick to get defensive when other people have feedback and criticism. Ummm..So what's the take-away here? I shouldn't reply back? Validity of an idea or argument is highly subjective and perceptive. akadien conveyed his thoughts and I conveyed mine without being rude or derailing the discussion. I would think that's how the discussion is supposed to work.
  - yesimahuman 16y ago
    You are getting defensive. There is a bigger lesson here (one that I have had to and still have to practice every day!) Anyways, best of luck (and I really do mean it)!
    - petervandijck 16y ago
      I actually think the dude isn't defensive, he's responding quite reasonably to someone being negative.
      - yesimahuman 16y ago
        Very negative, sure, but it isn't an argument, and there are no counter-arguments to akadien's advice. He doesn't have any of those things that many people believe to be the mark of a promising business. To akadien, those things are very important. To irahul they appear not to be. Who knows, he could be successful doing it differently, no one here would be able to say one way or the other.

ryanwaggoner 16y ago

You might be right, but it's extremely disappointing to me to see upvotes collecting on such a flippant put-down of another entrepreneur sharing his first steps and excitement with the one community that should understand and be encouraging. I vaguely recall that PG talked somewhere about how one of the biggest threats to HN wasn't spam or abuse, but just a general downward spiral of incivility and mean-spiritedness. I think I know now what he was talking about.

akadien 16y ago
I don't think it was a flippant put-down. Nor was I being uncivil or mean-spirited. I was being frank and straightforward. I was telling him exactly what he would hear from someone in the real world if he were to pitch it. If he can't handle this kind of experience-based advice on HN, then he certainly will crumble in the real world. I honestly wish him the best of luck. With a startup idea this vague, he will need it.
- ryanwaggoner 16y ago
  Why are trite comparisons with "the real world" (whatever that is) always the refuge of those who scorn others in public? "Well, if they can't take a little criticism from me, just wait until they hit the real world!" Give me a break. Opening your comment with "big whoop" is hardly frank or straightforward. You offered no real advice or help, and you're effectively anonymous from what I can tell, so your claims of "experience" are worthless. Your comment just reeks of a condescending snark that HN is better off without.
  - akadien 16y ago
    Ok, my experience is that my own lone-founder startup failed a couple of years ago in very large part because I didn't do the things that I claim are missing. I read the post, identified red flags that I failed at finding, and then posted them as a critique, which is what the poster asked for. I think you are taking a moral position about what should and shouldn't be the tone on HN. I might have missed it, but who elected you to determine what is or isn't "condescending snark"? And from follow-up posts by the original poster and others, it looks like I did offer some real advice. It just wasn't wrapped up in rosy and verbose language that you prefer.