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> (Which makes sense, given that Mozilla's Servo rendering engine also has the goal of being that kind of software.) Web browsers are not that kind of software

> (Which makes sense, given that Mozilla's Servo rendering engine also has the goal of being that kind of software.) Web browsers are not that kind of software. The web is evolving much faster than any of the other things you mentioned. New features get proposed every year, and you just have to deal with it and implement them, even if they complicate the implementation of the browser. Even if you cut that off, you still have to deal with the horrific mess that is the cumulative total of past web-related decisions.

derefr 9y ago
A rendering engine is not, itself, a web browser. (You might be thinking of a higher-level component, like Chromium's Embedded Framework? Not the same thing as a rendering engine.) There's certainly a layer of a rendering engine—the part that translates a CSSOM into rendering pragmas—that changes a lot over time. But rendering the resulting pragmas itself doesn't change much, and features requiring new pragmas come about remarkably slowly.
- cwzwarich 9y ago
  I definitely know the difference between a browser and a browser engine; I worked on both WebKit and Servo. There's much more to a browser engine than rendering alone, and rendering isn't even the most complicated part of a browser engine. Outside of rendering and JS there's a steady stream of new DOM APIs, and that's the part that is similar to the "agile user-story kanban".
  - derefr 9y ago
    Yes? It sounds like you're agreeing with me, and disagreeing with your own GP comment. Or maybe I misunderstood the point of your GP comment—it sounded like you were trying to use some sort of metonymy to equate Firefox/browsers in general with Servo, as an implicit counterargument to my GGP post in the sense of "it'd be bad to write a browser in Rust for [reasons you gave]; a rendering engine is part of a browser; a rendering engine thus has the same lifecycle as the browser itself; and thus, a rendering engine is not actually a good example of a good use-case for Rust, despite Mozilla's ambitions. QED." Clearly, though, you know what a rendering engine is, so I'm not sure what your argument in the GP post was. Was it just a tangential statement (i.e. "rendering engines are well and good, but it'd be silly to write the browser itself in Rust, for [reasons]"), rather than a rebuttal...?
kibwen 9y ago
So we're in agreement that we should reimplement Chrome in Perl, then. :)
- kbenson 9y ago
  As a Perl programmer I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry. ;)

derefr 9y ago

A rendering engine is not, itself, a web browser. (You might be thinking of a higher-level component, like Chromium's Embedded Framework? Not the same thing as a rendering engine.) There's certainly a layer of a rendering engine—the part that translates a CSSOM into rendering pragmas—that changes a lot over time. But rendering the resulting pragmas itself doesn't change much, and features requiring new pragmas come about remarkably slowly.

cwzwarich 9y ago
I definitely know the difference between a browser and a browser engine; I worked on both WebKit and Servo. There's much more to a browser engine than rendering alone, and rendering isn't even the most complicated part of a browser engine. Outside of rendering and JS there's a steady stream of new DOM APIs, and that's the part that is similar to the "agile user-story kanban".
- derefr 9y ago
  Yes? It sounds like you're agreeing with me, and disagreeing with your own GP comment. Or maybe I misunderstood the point of your GP comment—it sounded like you were trying to use some sort of metonymy to equate Firefox/browsers in general with Servo, as an implicit counterargument to my GGP post in the sense of "it'd be bad to write a browser in Rust for [reasons you gave]; a rendering engine is part of a browser; a rendering engine thus has the same lifecycle as the browser itself; and thus, a rendering engine is not actually a good example of a good use-case for Rust, despite Mozilla's ambitions. QED." Clearly, though, you know what a rendering engine is, so I'm not sure what your argument in the GP post was. Was it just a tangential statement (i.e. "rendering engines are well and good, but it'd be silly to write the browser itself in Rust, for [reasons]"), rather than a rebuttal...?

kibwen 9y ago

So we're in agreement that we should reimplement Chrome in Perl, then. :)

kbenson 9y ago
As a Perl programmer I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry. ;)