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Isn't the president the one who has ultimate control over what's classified and what's not? I'm not surprised that the president would discuss classified operat

by c3534l 9y ago

Isn't the president the one who has ultimate control over what's classified and what's not? I'm not surprised that the president would discuss classified operations with foreign dignitaries relevant to US interests.

threeseed 9y ago
Yes the President decides on classification. The issue here is that the intelligence came from a third party who never authorised the US to share it with anyone else especially not the Russians. Why is Russia an issue here ? Because they are there not just to fight ISIS but also to support the Syrian government who the US and most of the world absolutely do not support. And so Trump just helped Russia prop up the Syrians.
shin_lao 9y ago
This was information coming from an ally who didn't give authorization to transmit that information to Russians.
munin 9y ago
The system of designating information as confidential, secret, top secret and so on is indeed established by an executive order (EO 12356) however, one should actually read 12356 because it isn't as simple as "has ultimate control." Even within the EO framework, some co-ordination with the NSC is required. Additionally, the law (Espionage Act etc) doesn't speak to classification and names, very broadly: "Whoever, being entrusted with or having lawful possession or control of any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, note, or information, relating to the national defense, (1) through gross negligence permits the same to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust, or to be lost, stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, or (2) having knowledge that the same has been illegally removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of its trust, or lost, or stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, and fails to make prompt report of such loss, theft, abstraction, or destruction to his superior officer" edit: I quoted the wrong statute.
- hendersoon 9y ago
  I don't think anyone is arguing that he didn't have the right to release that classified intel to our adversaries. The argument is rather that it was an astonishingly poor decision.
  - munin 9y ago
    Indeed, instead of reading anything I wrote one should probably read what the experts think: https://lawfareblog.com/bombshell-initial-thoughts-washington-posts-game-changing-story https://lawfareblog.com/bombshell-initial-thoughts-washingto...
  - dismantlethesun 9y ago
    Is Russia an adversary to the USA in the war on isis?
matt4077 9y ago
If you read the story, you'd find that this is included. It also goes into detail why the disclosure was unwise even if not illegal. Even though the current administration may have lowered expectations substantially, I am sure people will still have faint memories of times when presidents could be criticised for actions that were simply "very very wrong", even if those actions didn't amount to crimes.
mcphage 9y ago
> I'm not surprised that the president would discuss classified operations with foreign dignitaries relevant to US interests. I am surprised that the president would be so cavalier about releasing classified information without due consideration, given how much of his campaign was complaining about his opponent playing fast & loose with classified info.
URSpider94 9y ago
a. The intel was provided to the USA in confidence by a third party. If the story is true, then POTUS just burned that third party. b. Apparently this is intel that we haven't shared with any of our close allies. Russia ... is not our close ally c. The WaPo article paints the picture that Trump went off-script and simply shared the intel to boast about how he gets the best briefings, wonderful briefings.

by c3534l 9y ago

threeseed 9y ago

Yes the President decides on classification. The issue here is that the intelligence came from a third party who never authorised the US to share it with anyone else especially not the Russians. Why is Russia an issue here ? Because they are there not just to fight ISIS but also to support the Syrian government who the US and most of the world absolutely do not support. And so Trump just helped Russia prop up the Syrians.

shin_lao 9y ago

This was information coming from an ally who didn't give authorization to transmit that information to Russians.

munin 9y ago

The system of designating information as confidential, secret, top secret and so on is indeed established by an executive order (EO 12356) however, one should actually read 12356 because it isn't as simple as "has ultimate control." Even within the EO framework, some co-ordination with the NSC is required. Additionally, the law (Espionage Act etc) doesn't speak to classification and names, very broadly: "Whoever, being entrusted with or having lawful possession or control of any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, note, or information, relating to the national defense, (1) through gross negligence permits the same to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust, or to be lost, stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, or (2) having knowledge that the same has been illegally removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of its trust, or lost, or stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, and fails to make prompt report of such loss, theft, abstraction, or destruction to his superior officer" edit: I quoted the wrong statute.

hendersoon 9y ago
I don't think anyone is arguing that he didn't have the right to release that classified intel to our adversaries. The argument is rather that it was an astonishingly poor decision.
- munin 9y ago
  Indeed, instead of reading anything I wrote one should probably read what the experts think: https://lawfareblog.com/bombshell-initial-thoughts-washington-posts-game-changing-story https://lawfareblog.com/bombshell-initial-thoughts-washingto...
- dismantlethesun 9y ago
  Is Russia an adversary to the USA in the war on isis?

matt4077 9y ago

If you read the story, you'd find that this is included. It also goes into detail why the disclosure was unwise even if not illegal. Even though the current administration may have lowered expectations substantially, I am sure people will still have faint memories of times when presidents could be criticised for actions that were simply "very very wrong", even if those actions didn't amount to crimes.

mcphage 9y ago

> I'm not surprised that the president would discuss classified operations with foreign dignitaries relevant to US interests. I am surprised that the president would be so cavalier about releasing classified information without due consideration, given how much of his campaign was complaining about his opponent playing fast & loose with classified info.

URSpider94 9y ago

a. The intel was provided to the USA in confidence by a third party. If the story is true, then POTUS just burned that third party. b. Apparently this is intel that we haven't shared with any of our close allies. Russia ... is not our close ally c. The WaPo article paints the picture that Trump went off-script and simply shared the intel to boast about how he gets the best briefings, wonderful briefings.