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I'm not so much shocked at the allegations here, but rather I'm shocked that we exist in a universe where these things are even possible. It is literally incon
by khazhoux 9y ago
I'm not so much shocked at the allegations here, but rather I'm shocked that we exist in a universe where these things are even possible. It is literally inconceivable to me to imagine a workplace like this. I can only barely imagine a living/housing environment like this (but then again, I was never in a frat, so maybe that's why?).
Talking about female coworkers? Sure, that happens.
Talk about sex at work? Sure. Not at my workplace, but ok.
Talk about rubbing one out because a coworker gave you boner? Eh.... O_o
Hell, my parents are still surprised to hear I can show up at whatever time in the morning and leave whenever I feel like it! That's what they consider outrageous.
- CCing 9y agoI was writing exactly the same thing. I can't understand how this is even possible. But fuck. How fuck can you have a sex room in the office ? How can someone have sex in the office ? I'm seriously speechless.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- cpncrunch 9y agoI just can't fathom how anyone working there could think this is acceptable. And why has it even been allowed to continue this long before without someone telling them to knock it off.
- toomuchtodo 9y agoSex in the workplace is far more common then you think.
- CCing 9y agoPeople can have sex if they want to(in theory no, on the workplace shouldn't be allowed so openly). BUT company that offer a bed/room for sex ? this seems to be too much. It's a workplace, not a frat house.
- Omnius 9y agoYeah it doesn't make sense makes it even more suspect. It's 2017 everyone knows this is a lawsuit waiting to happen and for a company to open themselves up to a lawsuit that they would HAVE to know is going to be coming seems suspect. I don't know enough to have an opinion one way or the other but if any company behaves like this the deserve to be sued out of business and should be fined for stupidity.
- bshimmin 9y agoIt's funny you mention people from an older generation. My mother worked as a secretary at a law firm in the UK in the 1960s, where she met my father. When I mentioned to her that "60% of women in tech reported unwanted sexual advances" [1], she yawned (quite literally) and said, "Is that all?" It seems hard to imagine that this fiasco, Magic Leap from last week, Uber, etc, might actually be construed as "progress", but, well... [1] per https://www.elephantinthevalley.com https://www.elephantinthevalley.com
- ethbro 9y agoProgress is that these things now make news. Because that's what's hopefully going to change the world. First there's publicity, then there's awareness, then there's change.
- antisthenes 9y agoI wouldn't be surprised if a woman of average and above attractiveness don't get unwanted sexual advances every month, regardless of the industry, unless it is clearly indicated that they are married. In that case the 60% figure seems spot on. Of course the issue here is what we define as a sexual advance. It wouldn't surprise me if some propositions to a date were miscategorized as sexual advances. Not that it makes the others OK. Here's a question for you people directly in tech: do you think the other industries are better or worse in this regard? Has there been any studies or polls or anything even remotely scientific to study this?
- mc32 9y agoI've worked at places people would recognize as being nice progressive workplaces --but even there you will find people with odd predilections. Once, in a toilet stall early in the morning, someone else comes in, thinking they were the only ones, they, from the sounds of it, masturbated to their delight, thinking of course, no one else was there in another stall. I mean, what are you supposed to do but wait something like that out?
- sillysaurus3 9y agoI don't understand why this article is on HN. The purpose of HN is to gratify intellectual curiosity. There's nothing to learn from this, and it's not interesting. Bad things exist. We might want to try to flag this.
- threeseed 9y agoMany people on here are trying to run startups. Understanding company culture and sexual harassment are important issues to be educated about.
- sillysaurus3 9y agoAs tptacek is fond of saying, HN shouldn't try to be all things to all people. There are an infinite number of issues that classify as important but are beyond the scope of HN's charter.
- beedogs 9y agoWhat's flaggable about it? (The fact that it makes you feel weird isn't a reason, by the way.)
- sillysaurus3 9y agoBeing outside the guidelines is the central reason to flag a story.
- s73ver 9y agoI would say there is tons to learn about this. For one, if your startup starts to grow, don't do what the people in this story did. Try to make your workplace culture have a modicum of decency.
- smoyer 9y agoThis is the logical consequence of Peter Thiel's idea that you put bright (but often socially inept) high-school nerds directly into founding roles in companies. You end up with socially inept and socially inappropriate bosses who were never forced to conform to society's norms. EDIT: I am not implying that Peter Thiel would condone this behavior.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- trsohmers 9y agoI feel I have to defend myself here to some extent (being a now former Thiel Fellow), but I can fairly safely say that the ~20 other Thiel Fellows that I would call "friends" would never do anything close to this at their companies. While there are now over 120 fellows and I do not know them all, I bet there is one or at most a small handful that could fit your description, but I would say that of any group of similar size that you were to pick from a university. I would definitely say I am socially awkward/inept, but I don't think that necessarily correlates with being socially maladapted/unaware of societies norms. The sort of "bro" culture that exemplifies UploadVR's, Uber, and many other "hot" tech companies right now is the culture that myself and most other high-school nerds that I knew rejected... we were not the popular kids that drank, had sex, and partied. I think all of this is a symptom of technology being a much more attractive jobspace for the general public (which includes a lot of "bros") compared to just for "nerds" that it was decades ago, and your conclusion is the exact opposite of this. Granted it is an anecdote with a relatively small sample size, but I have not seen this sort of behavior/ideas from anyone who never went to college or dropped out, but I see it from plenty of folks in their late 20s/early 30s that never grew up from their college fraternity experiences.
- smoyer 9y agoI shouldn't have type-cast an entire group. Clearly you can be socially inept and yet be appropriate (I was more like that too). But I also started as an employee in smallish companies and moved to founding them. I should also note that some never seem to "grow up" - appropriateness simply eludes them permanently. If you look at Uber you have a founder that could, in theory, be a grandfather but doesn't seem to have a sense of what society condones.
- mcculley 9y agoThis kind of behavior has been reported at many startups. Venture capitalists have apparently made an implicit analysis that the risk of settling a lawsuit is cheaper than adult supervision and an experienced HR department. The free market has spoken.
- flukus 9y agoI'm more shocked by the puritanical reactions here, it's something I'd expect from Saudi Arabia, not silicon valley. We're all fine with ping pong tables and other forms of entertainment that aren't work related, so I don't buy the "professional environment" bullshit. But somehow sex, or just talking about sex in an office has become taboo. Instead of being open and progressive it's back to code words and using the disabled toilet.
- danso 9y agoBelieve it or not, but there indeed exists, even in liberal San Francisco, a certain crowd of prudish men and women who categorize sexual intercourse differently from ping-pong, even though both are technically physical activities that can be entertaining.
- flukus 9y agoOf course they're different activities, but I haven't seen anyone give an objective reason why one is good and one is bad.
- sbarre 9y agoLadies and gentlemen, an example of someone who doesn't understand the relevance of established social norms! You really don't understand the difference between ping-pong and sex? Either you really like ping-pong, or you really don't like sex.. ;-) Listen, you may have somewhat of an academic point here, but you're ignoring the fact that way more people - men and women - would be uncomfortable with open discussion of co-workers' sexual activities, much less knowing or condoning that it happens in the workplace, than having a ping pong table in the break room. Is this a good or a bad thing? it actually doesn't matter, because it is what it is. It is a social norm. Can it be changed? Sure, maybe.. But you will only present yourself poorly if you think that telling people their concerns don't matter, or are "bullshit" is the way to change this.
- vikasg 9y ago