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UploadVR sued over ‘rampant’ sexual behavior in workplace, wrongful termination
- atemerev 9y agoI don't understand why it even happens. With all high-profile cases in the last few years, can people hold it for a while? Or everybody is hiring 19 year old boys who physiologically can't?
- swampthinker 9y agoI think a large part of it has to do with the fact that young college students and/or recent graduates building startups and hitting it big with VC funding. It's effectively giving kids that haven't grown up a large sum of money.
- EliRivers 9y agoEven so, do these VCs not install any kind of adult supervision when they put their money on the line? Sure, they don't want to just bring in their own CEO, but a little bit of guidance along the lines of "this is a fucking workplace, not somewhere for you to play out your immature sexual power fantasies and jeopardise my money" would go a long way.
- throwanem 9y agoFetter one's stable of unicorns? Heaven forfend! They're such delicate creatures.
- swampthinker 9y agoIt's pretty easy to hide what you don't want found.
- duskwuff 9y agoThat's the impression I got too. A lot of the behavior described in the complaint reminds me of an out-of-control frat house.
- drawnwren 9y agoUntil they have a chance to answer the complaint, we should probably reserve judgement. However, if even 10% of this is true - I can't comprehend how anyone would think this was a culture that would work in 2017.
- pavlov 9y agoYou're thinking it too rationally. Sexual harassment begins as a test of power and turns into a perpetuating abuse of power. A well-known American described its appeal thus: "Just kiss. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything."
- santaclaus 9y ago> Or everybody is hiring 19 year old boys who physiologically can't? Not that being 19 is an excuse, but the founders of UploadVR are closer to 30 than to 19.
- johnny22 9y ago>> 19 year old boys who physiologically can't I was 19 once.. it really wasn't that difficult.
- minimaxir 9y agoDirect link to complaint: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3722345-UploadVR-lawsuit.html https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3722345-UploadVR-law... It's something.
- tyingq 9y agoWow. No nuance or subtlety at all. Sounds like one of those over the top training videos, where you think, "well, sure, harassment happens, but it's not that blunt and that out in the open." Assuming it can be corroborated well enough, I would guess a very large verdict or settlement. Sounds like a hellish place to work.
- pcr0 9y agoWow, I think the article was being very kind.
- notamy 9y agoHoly crap. This is almost unbelievable, it's so bad. How are ANY of the things listed as complaints possibly good ideas in someone's mind!?
- s73ver 9y agoLack of separation between personal and professional life. One of the things Silicon Valley companies have been working on doing for a while is blurring the lines between work and not work.
- aphextron 9y agoGood god. These guys are going to be sued into oblivion. Hope it was worth it.
- jjawssd 9y ago
- minimaxir 9y agoIn this case, the complaint contains an accusation (#50) that UploadVR retaliated by slandering her to other VR companies.
- jjawssd 9y agoThank you for helping me understand
- cscheid 9y ago> Can somebody please explain why the employers are being held legally liable? Because this is... illegal. Page 3 of the complaint document has references: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3722345-UploadVR-lawsuit.html https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3722345-UploadVR-law...
- URSpider94 9y agoIn California, managers of a company are legally liable for sexual harassment if they know it was occurring and didn't take appropriate action. I'll have to look back at my training notes ... yep, pretty sure just simply having a sex room in the office qualifies as promoting a hostile work environment.
- UseofWeapons1 9y agoI respect TechCrunch's decision to not publish the plaintiff's name in the primary portion of their article. It's easy to look up for those who have a reason to search for it, but it's not necessary to the discussion, and could potentially alleviate some of the social backlash (or at least issues) associated with going to court. Employees with legitimate legal gripes against their employers don't need to face additional barriers (such as social stigma) to legal action.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- bitwize 9y agoWhat sort of professional would even want to work at a company with an office "smush room"? Before the issues of discrimination and harassment come up, the smell of the place must be appalling.
- jjawssd 9y agoWere the employees made aware of the culture during the hiring process? Edit: I am burning a lot of karma on this one for no apparent reason. Discrimination is bad. Thank you down-voters for not bothering to join the discussion.
- pavlov 9y agoWere the employees made aware of the culture during the hiring process? Discrimination is illegal, but the idea of a "culture notice" that could be used to pre-emptively counter that seems interesting. How would that work in practice? Would it be a clause on the employment contract? "Section 13. Culture. The company has a Fuck Room ("the Room"). No one ever got fired for joining a co-founder in the Room."
- duskwuff 9y ago> How would that work in practice? It wouldn't. Contracts can't override the law. What you're probably thinking of here are certain workplaces where sexually explicit material or discussion is inherent to the work -- say, a porn studio -- and an employment contract might include a disclaimer to that effect. Even that wouldn't preempt a lawsuit over sexual harassment in the workplace, though; it'd merely raise the bar.
- gogopuppygogo 9y agoWow. Wonder what Robert Scoble is going to say about this... He's been talking them up recently on Facebook.
- minimaxir 9y agoScoble works (EDIT: worked) for UploadVR. https://uploadvr.com/scoble-why-vr/ https://uploadvr.com/scoble-why-vr/
- izakaya27 9y agoHe no longer works there according to his LinkedIn, and posted this a few days ago: https://www.facebook.com/RobertScoble/posts/10155278654934655 https://www.facebook.com/RobertScoble/posts/1015527865493465...
- minimaxir 9y agoThanks for the followup. > But I'll add one more new sign: "if your social media team leaves your company is f*ed." It's worth noting the plaintiff of this case was the head of the UploadVR social media team.
- moomin 9y agoI'll add one more sign: they've got a sex room. Joel Spolsky being down on aquariums seems rather quaint now.
- josephpmay 9y agoI love how Scoble thinks that just because he doesn't include the company's name means he isn't violating the non-disparagement clause
- moomin 9y agoThink this case may have just rendered any damages moot, however.
- kartan 9y ago> For example, male employees stated how they were sexually aroused by female employees and how it was hard to concentrate and be productive when all they could think about was having sex with them. > The suit also claims that the company paid male employees more despite sharing the same roles and responsibilities. This is horrible and illegal in a lot of ways. And what were management thinking? How can anyone be productive at work with such a toxic environment? I would just be ashamed of working in such a place. And that is part of the problem, employees that do not fit in the company "culture" usually leave or are fired. So the toxic environment gets perpetuated. I work in a company with a lot of diversity, and I like it. We have only a few female developers, as there is not so much female software engineers graduating from university, but we have better parity in all other roles. We have people from a lot of different nations, and English is our shared language even that is the native tongue for just a few. I like the open, friendly environment where people get the respect they deserve. It boosts productivity and collaboration. I wouldn't like it any other way.
- pottersbasilisk 9y agoA "smush room" ... gross. I haven't had to deal with that kind of gross culture since I quit an it job on wall street. It sounds like wall street executive culture is leaking through and through silicon valley.
- khazhoux 9y agoI'm not so much shocked at the allegations here, but rather I'm shocked that we exist in a universe where these things are even possible. It is literally inconceivable to me to imagine a workplace like this. I can only barely imagine a living/housing environment like this (but then again, I was never in a frat, so maybe that's why?). Talking about female coworkers? Sure, that happens. Talk about sex at work? Sure. Not at my workplace, but ok. Talk about rubbing one out because a coworker gave you boner? Eh.... O_o Hell, my parents are still surprised to hear I can show up at whatever time in the morning and leave whenever I feel like it! That's what they consider outrageous.
- CCing 9y agoI was writing exactly the same thing. I can't understand how this is even possible. But fuck. How fuck can you have a sex room in the office ? How can someone have sex in the office ? I'm seriously speechless.
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- cpncrunch 9y agoI just can't fathom how anyone working there could think this is acceptable. And why has it even been allowed to continue this long before without someone telling them to knock it off.
- toomuchtodo 9y agoSex in the workplace is far more common then you think.
- CCing 9y agoPeople can have sex if they want to(in theory no, on the workplace shouldn't be allowed so openly). BUT company that offer a bed/room for sex ? this seems to be too much. It's a workplace, not a frat house.
- bluetwo 9y agoMany of the defendants are in this promo video. https://upload.io https://upload.io
- epx 9y agoMy lowpass filter makes me not to believe in this, but it's been wrong before :(
- rsynnott 9y agoBloody hell. This sounds like a parody of a dreadful Silicon Valley company.
- ajmurmann 9y agoI think if a company like this was in the show Silicon Valley it would be badly received because it would be too out there and unrealistic even for that show.
- s73ver 9y agoFunny story: Dan Lyons, a writer for Silicon Valley and the author of the book Disrupted, about his experiences working at the high tech startup HubSpot, said that he had pitched many things that he personally saw during his time there. He was frequently shot down because they seemed too far outside reality.
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- tn135 9y agoA kink room in office ? I will not be surprised this might actually be a positive for UploadVR. Honestly I am not sure why SV tech companies don't hire lot of pretty girls for no good reason but to simply keep the male employees happy. Why can't office Friday parties be at local strip clubs ? However there are some things that seem inappropriate such as > Male employees, including Mason and Freeman, would even speak sexually about women that worked in the office, right in front of them. For example, male employees stated how they were sexually aroused by female employees and how it was hard to concentrate and be productive when all they could think about was having sex with them.
- tn135 9y agoI think we should always pay attention to the other side of the story before we buy into the allegations. I am not playing down the possible harassment of any employee but let us not be blinded by the allegations alone either.
- cpncrunch 9y agoIf it was just general allegations about sexual behaviour at the workplace, I would be a bit skeptical. However when they provide concrete factual examples, it seems somewhat unlikely that it would be completely made up.
- tn135 9y agoActually I see what might be the source of those allegations. My office has a sleeping space and we have all sort of names for it including 'man cave', 'room where bad things happen' etc. etc. I can totally see how a disgruntled employee can convert it into "kink room" where people have sex. On various office parties we had hired strippers and escorts and while none of them were prostitutes I can totally see how it can be reconstructed. We have gone to clubs to pick up women and discussed strategies. All this in my opinion is perfectly normal and yet can be represented in a negative way. EDIT: Strippers were not hired by employer but everyone contributed their own money for team event.
- gotothedoctor 9y agoIf you work in the US, you are describing what lawyers will call a 'hostile workplace' when your employers are, based on your description alone, successfully sued for discrimination. This is not perfectly normal in any professional setting. More and more often, it has real professional and legal consequences.
- beedogs 9y agoIf your office has a place to sleep, your company is probably taking advantage of you. If it's renting strippers, it's probably a pretty misogynist culture, as well. Sounds like an exhausting and terrible place to work, frankly.
- Shorel 9y agoI think that a surveillance society is the only possible development that can come from issues like this. Instead of 'he said, she said', companies will have detailed records of everything said by most employees.
- superioritycplx 9y agoSV must be the least productive society right now: one half just wants to have fun while the other half just waits for the right moment to sue.
- dba7dba 9y agoLol, I just checked UploadVR's website and a popup window used for collecting email has following: > GET HOOKED UP I'm not gonna even expect the accused to clean up their acts. Only way they will learn, and teach other younger ones not to copy their acts, is for the investors to hammer this down hard. They only understand the all mighty dollars so they need to be dealt with accordingly.
- dba7dba 9y agoHm, why am I voted down?
- toomuchtodo 9y agoIf it's consensual and everyone is an adult, I don't see the problem. No different than everyone having sex in the meditation room at a coworking space (true story!). But harassment and abuse? Do not pass go. Go directly to court and liquidation.
- CCing 9y agoThe problem is that is a fucking workplace... If they want have sex is better for them that they don't get caught or they do at home. Have a room/bed for sex in office is something really stupid if you want have a sane culture(imho).
- toomuchtodo 9y agoJust because it's the workplace doesn't mean you can't have sex there. Every company's culture is different. Choose accordingly! This does not mean harassment is okay. It is never okay.
- vikasg 9y agoThere's a whole lot of difference between two colleagues consensually sneaking off to have sex and having a fucking designated sex room in the office for everyone to see. You clearly never understood the phrase 'hostile work environment'.
- CCing 9y agoWe have different ideas about workplace and sane culture.
- toomuchtodo 9y agoAnd that's okay. One size does not fit all.
- CCing 9y agoNot sure if your idea of workplace is good for a young girl that don't want be harassed every day.
- krapp 9y agoYes, but if one must have sex in the workplace, I would rather it be in a designated area than, say, on my desk. I want to know what surfaces genitals have been pressed against and where, with a reasonable degree of confidence, they haven't. I'm not even hung up about the sex at all, if it's consensual you do you and or whomever you like, but it's a matter of hygiene.
- CCing 9y agoOne shouldn't must have sex in office. So simple no ? If you are reserve a room for sex, you(boss) are simply saying to all your employees that they can do whatever they wants in office and imho is not good for culture neither. In your office there is a room for sex ?
- krapp 9y ago> One shouldn't must have sex in office. So simple no ? Well, yes, but if people are going to anyway, might as well have a place for it. >In your office there is a room for sex ? I work at an Amazon fulfillment center. If there were a room for sex, it wouldn't be allowed in my process path due to insufficient rate.
- ethbro 9y agoA6 (1 minute)... Sex (2 minutes)... J32 (5 minutes)... Sleep (180 minutes)... Sounds like the future to me!
- danso 9y agoIf people are going to be assholes anyway, might as well have a designated swastika room too, right? A company isn't required to fulfill the every desire of their employees.
- krapp 9y agoI merely stated that were sex in the workplace to be considered inevitable, and it probably should be, that it would be preferable not to just let it be had anywhere. I never insisted that any company be required to do anything. Also, it's weird that of all the things you could have compared sex to, you picked "being an asshole" and, apparently, racism. You know sex is a good thing, right?
- palakchokshi 9y agoI'm genuinely interested in knowing the answer to this question: What makes someone stay in a job after they've been asked to clean up a room where they found underwear and opened condom packets? Especially if the top honcho was allegedly engaged in such behavior. There is no chance the situation is going to get better no matter who you complained to. get out now!
- badosu 9y agoThat's exactly what I was pondering after reading the lawsuit. I mean, being told to be the 'mommy' of the male workers, not being supplied with equipment in contrary to the others, having to hear directly of mentions to threesomes and disapproval of sexual appearance, being kicked out of your room for your boss to have sex with someone in it, being ostracized by not using drugs at work. Sometimes reality is stranger than fiction so I would not doubt that is true, I am just having great difficulty to understand how such scenario would be feasible. I mean, how could someone continue to work in a place like this for almost a year?
- superioritycplx 9y agoIt's to either make a pretty penny by suing the company and/or make a name for oneself as a SJW.
- dang 9y agoWe've banned this account for trolling. Using HN primarily for political and ideological battle is an abuse of this site. We ban accounts that do this, especially when we ask them to stop and they keep right at it.
- aphextron 9y ago>What makes someone stay in a job after they've been asked to clean up a room where they found underwear and opened condom packets? Money. The same attitude that leads to this also means six figure salaries for "social media experts".
- d883kd8 9y ago> Male employees used that room to have sexual intercourse, which was disruptive and inappropriate. With whom?
- dragonwriter 9y agoPresumably, female non-employees (likely, though not necessarily exclusively, prostitutes), at least if that room is consistent with all the other allegations of sex involving male employees at company events.
- psyc 9y agoThis stands out like a sore thumb. Somehow I get the feeling this does not mean the room was used exclusively for gay male sex.
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- d883kd8 9y agoI think that should be considered the third coworker's problem. Sex is a natural and normal bodily function. Imagine if someone was insisting that anyone menstruating stay home.
- arglebarnacle 9y agoSure, in the way that peeing all over the walls is a bodily function. It's a bodily function that's allowed at home (if you must), but not allowed in the office.
- s73ver 9y agoNot the same thing at all. Have sex somewhere that's not the office. It's honestly not hard.
- mistersquid 9y agoSex is voluntary.
- dang 9y agoWe detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14346398 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14346398 and marked it off-topic.
- projektir 9y agoIt's like a different universe over there.
- exogeny 9y agoAs mentioned on TechCrunch, Greg Gopman (dude who wrote the incredibly tone-deaf anti-homeless piece that went viral a few years back) is named in the lawsuit. Shitheads gonna shit.
- nojvek 9y agoI think VC's should just pull funding from companies that have dog-rain management. Sort of like the Abhishekh Guttani case. Sites like crunch base should give them a "DO NOT FUND ASSHOLES" stamp.
- lemonsqueeze 9y agoThe only people complaining are the ones not having sex in that room.