7 ms·

I don't think it's really fair to suggest that average Chinese people have a choice in the matter. I lived in China (Guangzhou) for several years, and it was l

by Apfel 9y ago

I don't think it's really fair to suggest that average Chinese people have a choice in the matter. I lived in China (Guangzhou) for several years, and it was literally impossible to buy a computer with a legal copy of windows installed on it (or, failing that, a standalone windows disc) in the main computer district of the city. I eventually had to hop the border to Hong Kong when I wanted to buy a laptop.

johansch 9y ago
They could run Linux. Or buy a mac. Or buy a windows license from abroad. Seems like plenty of choices to me.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- pboutros 9y ago
  You forgot to add "Write their own OS" to your really good suggestions here.
- BlackjackCF 9y ago
  Yeah, but keep in mind that not everyone's computer-savvy enough to do that. Often people will go the path of least resistance... and if it means your laptop/computer ships with illegal copies of Windows, that's what you're going to use. I think Macbooks are pretty expensive in China (last I checked, this was a few years ago, so this might have changed), which is why people are gonna leap for the cheaper alternatives.
- duncan_bayne 9y ago
  No idea why this is being downvoted. Pretty sure it's legal to run FreeBSD and Linux in China, if you can't afford an Apple. Convenience isn't an excuse for copyright violation.
  - cynix 9y ago
    The problem is that most of the software that Chinese people use from day to day are typically only available on Windows.
    - duncan_bayne 9y ago
      So? That sounds like a bad decision on their part.
      - rspeer 9y ago
        The decision to try to use FreeBSD or Linux would probably leave them unable to type in their own language. I have tried what passes for an IME for Linux desktop applications (formerly SCIM, now IBus). It doesn't work with some applications. It crashes some applications sporadically. And one technology was replaced by another that doesn't work the same way without a smooth upgrade path. If you are a power user who has been using *nix for years and reading lots of documentation in English, you can come up with the right configuration and workarounds for occasional typing in CJK. That's no way to actually use a computer to do things if your primary language is Chinese.
        spacehunt 9y ago
        The IME situation in modern X frankly sucks. Back in the day I regularly contributed to the relevant projects, but our efforts were continually thwarted by people who had no idea about CJK requirements and worse, won't listen to us ("why do you need to pass keystrokes to a separate process?", "users don't need a choice of IMEs per language", etc). It got so tiring that eventually most of the regular contributors moved on. And now I have no idea what's going to happen with Wayland.
  - omegaham 9y ago
    The average poster on HN would be okay with doing this, but broader society would not. My mother, bless her heart, struggles with email. When she needs something, she goes to Best Buy and gets whatever the salesman tells her to get. Telling her "Oh, Best Buy is breaking the law, but you can install FreeBSD, and you'll be fine" is a little out of her comfort zone.
bgee 9y ago
I have lived in China forever and I have no idea what you are talking about. Every laptop that I have owned came with legal copy of Windows with it. My family members have brought numerous legal copies (discs) from a local "computer district" as well.
- ghostly_s 9y ago
  How do you confirm this?
  - bgee 9y ago
    Is the Windows sticker on a laptop good enough?
    - bgee 9y ago
      Why is this downvoted? I thought the Windows sticker on a laptop is the best proof that Windows is pre-installed...
      - wernercd 9y ago
        The question isn't "Is Windows installed"... it's "Is the install of Windows on a laptop legal and legitimate". A sticker says Windows is installed... it doesn't say anything about legality. OP said "I couldn't find a laptop with a legal copy of Windows installed". Responder said "Everything I got was legal, and had no issues buying new discs with legal licenses".
        bgee 9y ago
        OP said "it was literally impossible to buy a computer with a legal copy of windows installed on it". Responder said "it is quite possible (even common) to buy a computer with a legal copy of windows installed on it" and asked "is a Windows sticker on a laptop good proof for legally installed Windows?" with the assumption that pirated Windows does not come with a sticker. PS: That assumption turns out to be debatable [0]. [0]: https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a21m2.8232368.0.0.TlUMnH&id=40631876236 https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a21m2.8232368.0.0.TlUMn...
lacampbell 9y ago
Why doesn't the PRC make it's own operating system? It could be based completely off of western technology like Linux, but they could claim it's completely Chinese made and tout it as a huge technological advancement - like they do with their trains.
- pcr0 9y ago
  There already is an official Ubuntu distro for China. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Kylin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Kylin
  - HowardMei 9y ago
    Many prefer Deepin rather than Kylin. https://www.deepin.org/ https://www.deepin.org/
- euske 9y ago
  They have made Red Flag Linux back in the days, which was possibly based on Red Hat, which I found amusing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Flag_Linux https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Flag_Linux
  - HowardMei 9y ago
    Not only amusing but also a failure.
- Bakary 9y ago
  There is currently a big push towards getting their own semi-conductor industry
- HowardMei 9y ago
  Because we are lazy. Com'on, the US government hasn't banned Win10 export to China yet. Home baked RTOSes prosper though.
RachelF 9y ago
Systems that have already been infected with the NSA DOUBLEPULSAR rootkit are more vulnerable to infection [1]. The high prevalence in China (and Russia) might also indicate that these systems were hacked by the NSA prior to the Microsoft March 2017 update patch and the WannaCry ransomware. [1] http://blog.talosintelligence.com/2017/05/wannacry.html http://blog.talosintelligence.com/2017/05/wannacry.html
- ethbro 9y ago
  For reference, the specific quote "WannaCry appears to primarily utilize the ETERNALBLUE modules and the DOUBLEPULSAR backdoor. The malware uses ETERNALBLUE for the initial exploitation of the SMB vulnerability. If successful it will then implant the DOUBLEPULSAR backdoor and utilize it to install the malware. If the exploit fails and the DOUBLEPULSAR backdoor is already installed the malware will still leverage this to install the ransomware payload. This is the cause of the worm-like activity that has been widely observed across the internet."
kazinator 9y ago
You can install Windows for free, and then buy a license for it. You have some time to use the OS before the trial period expires; then some annoyances kick in. (Of course, if it's cracked in some way to circumvent that without paying then it's illegal.)

by Apfel 9y ago

johansch 9y ago

They could run Linux. Or buy a mac. Or buy a windows license from abroad. Seems like plenty of choices to me.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
pboutros 9y ago
You forgot to add "Write their own OS" to your really good suggestions here.
BlackjackCF 9y ago
Yeah, but keep in mind that not everyone's computer-savvy enough to do that. Often people will go the path of least resistance... and if it means your laptop/computer ships with illegal copies of Windows, that's what you're going to use. I think Macbooks are pretty expensive in China (last I checked, this was a few years ago, so this might have changed), which is why people are gonna leap for the cheaper alternatives.
duncan_bayne 9y ago
No idea why this is being downvoted. Pretty sure it's legal to run FreeBSD and Linux in China, if you can't afford an Apple. Convenience isn't an excuse for copyright violation.
- cynix 9y ago
  The problem is that most of the software that Chinese people use from day to day are typically only available on Windows.
  - duncan_bayne 9y ago
    So? That sounds like a bad decision on their part.
    - rspeer 9y ago
      The decision to try to use FreeBSD or Linux would probably leave them unable to type in their own language. I have tried what passes for an IME for Linux desktop applications (formerly SCIM, now IBus). It doesn't work with some applications. It crashes some applications sporadically. And one technology was replaced by another that doesn't work the same way without a smooth upgrade path. If you are a power user who has been using *nix for years and reading lots of documentation in English, you can come up with the right configuration and workarounds for occasional typing in CJK. That's no way to actually use a computer to do things if your primary language is Chinese.
      - spacehunt 9y ago
        The IME situation in modern X frankly sucks. Back in the day I regularly contributed to the relevant projects, but our efforts were continually thwarted by people who had no idea about CJK requirements and worse, won't listen to us ("why do you need to pass keystrokes to a separate process?", "users don't need a choice of IMEs per language", etc). It got so tiring that eventually most of the regular contributors moved on. And now I have no idea what's going to happen with Wayland.
- omegaham 9y ago
  The average poster on HN would be okay with doing this, but broader society would not. My mother, bless her heart, struggles with email. When she needs something, she goes to Best Buy and gets whatever the salesman tells her to get. Telling her "Oh, Best Buy is breaking the law, but you can install FreeBSD, and you'll be fine" is a little out of her comfort zone.

bgee 9y ago

I have lived in China forever and I have no idea what you are talking about. Every laptop that I have owned came with legal copy of Windows with it. My family members have brought numerous legal copies (discs) from a local "computer district" as well.

ghostly_s 9y ago
How do you confirm this?
- bgee 9y ago
  Is the Windows sticker on a laptop good enough?
  - bgee 9y ago
    Why is this downvoted? I thought the Windows sticker on a laptop is the best proof that Windows is pre-installed...
    - wernercd 9y ago
      The question isn't "Is Windows installed"... it's "Is the install of Windows on a laptop legal and legitimate". A sticker says Windows is installed... it doesn't say anything about legality. OP said "I couldn't find a laptop with a legal copy of Windows installed". Responder said "Everything I got was legal, and had no issues buying new discs with legal licenses".
      - bgee 9y ago
        OP said "it was literally impossible to buy a computer with a legal copy of windows installed on it". Responder said "it is quite possible (even common) to buy a computer with a legal copy of windows installed on it" and asked "is a Windows sticker on a laptop good proof for legally installed Windows?" with the assumption that pirated Windows does not come with a sticker. PS: That assumption turns out to be debatable [0]. [0]: https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a21m2.8232368.0.0.TlUMnH&id=40631876236 https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a21m2.8232368.0.0.TlUMn...

lacampbell 9y ago

Why doesn't the PRC make it's own operating system? It could be based completely off of western technology like Linux, but they could claim it's completely Chinese made and tout it as a huge technological advancement - like they do with their trains.

pcr0 9y ago
There already is an official Ubuntu distro for China. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Kylin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Kylin
- HowardMei 9y ago
  Many prefer Deepin rather than Kylin. https://www.deepin.org/ https://www.deepin.org/
euske 9y ago
They have made Red Flag Linux back in the days, which was possibly based on Red Hat, which I found amusing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Flag_Linux https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Flag_Linux
- HowardMei 9y ago
  Not only amusing but also a failure.
Bakary 9y ago
There is currently a big push towards getting their own semi-conductor industry
HowardMei 9y ago
Because we are lazy. Com'on, the US government hasn't banned Win10 export to China yet. Home baked RTOSes prosper though.

RachelF 9y ago

Systems that have already been infected with the NSA DOUBLEPULSAR rootkit are more vulnerable to infection [1]. The high prevalence in China (and Russia) might also indicate that these systems were hacked by the NSA prior to the Microsoft March 2017 update patch and the WannaCry ransomware. [1] http://blog.talosintelligence.com/2017/05/wannacry.html http://blog.talosintelligence.com/2017/05/wannacry.html

ethbro 9y ago
For reference, the specific quote "WannaCry appears to primarily utilize the ETERNALBLUE modules and the DOUBLEPULSAR backdoor. The malware uses ETERNALBLUE for the initial exploitation of the SMB vulnerability. If successful it will then implant the DOUBLEPULSAR backdoor and utilize it to install the malware. If the exploit fails and the DOUBLEPULSAR backdoor is already installed the malware will still leverage this to install the ransomware payload. This is the cause of the worm-like activity that has been widely observed across the internet."

kazinator 9y ago

You can install Windows for free, and then buy a license for it. You have some time to use the OS before the trial period expires; then some annoyances kick in. (Of course, if it's cracked in some way to circumvent that without paying then it's illegal.)