4 ms·

How comprehensive is Zipcar’s insurance?

13 points by px 16y ago

a2tech 16y ago
What insurance do you want them to provide? They can't be held liable for every jackass with a drivers license that rents on of their vehicles.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- techsupporter 16y ago
  They're not. According to "How it Works" [1], "[c]omprehensive insurance is included as a part of the low hourly and daily rate." However, Zipcar does not let "every jackass with a driver's license" rent one of their vehicles. You have to apply [2] and be accepted for membership in the service. Meeting their requirements means, among other things, you must: "* Have had no more than two 'incidents' (moving violations PLUS accidents) in the past three years and no more than one incident in the past 18 months * Have had no major violations in the past three years * Have had no alcohol violations in the past seven years" [3] They're only insuring the customers they choose to insure, and should be doing so according to the "comprehensive coverage" their advertising states. Their insurance does not seem to require anyone to carry other insurance, and doesn't seem to be subordinate to any existing insurance, beyond the subscriber paying a $500 deductible[4], therefore Zipcar needs to pay up 1 - http://www.zipcar.com/how/whatsincluded http://www.zipcar.com/how/whatsincluded 2 - http://www.zipcar.com/seattle/apply/?account_id=&group_id= http://www.zipcar.com/seattle/apply/?account_id=&group_i... 3 - http://www.zipcar.com/how/faqs/one-faq?faq_number=1 http://www.zipcar.com/how/faqs/one-faq?faq_number=1 4 - http://www.zipcar.com/how/faqs/one-faq?faq_number=28 http://www.zipcar.com/how/faqs/one-faq?faq_number=28
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
snsr 16y ago
<imaginary bq>it seems they’re still interested in putting liability onto their members when there’s an accident, like the time when Zipcar member Dale Douglas rear-ended Leslie Minto. Minto took Zipcar to court, but Zipcar won, saying that it was not liable “for harm to persons or property that results or arises out of the use, operation, or possession of [their vehicles] during the period of the rental or lease”.</end bq> Isn't this precisely why drivers/owners are compelled to purchase insurance? Dude is lucky he didn't kill someone.
- MartinCron 16y ago
  Isn't this precisely why drivers/owners are compelled to purchase insurance? The contentious issue is that the zipcar marketing implies that "comprehensive" insurance is included. They don't require you to have outside insurance, and they don't even offer you an opportunity to (through them) get more (specifically liability) insurance at an additional cost. I don't know about you, but when I see the word "comprehensive", I tend to think it covers everything. The concept of the car sharing service is that it's something you use rarely. Paying to be insured 24/7/365 for something that you use once or twice a month seems wasteful. I'm not even sure it's possible to get insurance for car sharing services through traditional insurers. In any case, it seems like far more of a hassle than checking a checkbox to pay more to get some additional insurance through zipcar directly.
zach 16y ago
"It seems they’re still interested in putting liability onto their members when there’s an accident"? Of course -- they should be! Insuring someone is totally different from assuming liability, is it not? The article totally lost me at this point.
- riffer 16y ago
  Agreed (and upvoted), although I come to a different conclusion. When potential Zipcar customers see the marketing materials that mention comprehensive insurance, are they being mislead by that marketing? I suspect so. They don't have an obligation to cover liability or provide insurance that covers liability, but they do have a responsibility to be clear on the marketing side.
  - techsupporter 16y ago
    Zipcar is not liable for the actions of its customers, insofar as the insurance coverage is concerned. Insurance (n) - [...] D. Coverage by a contract binding a party to indemnify another against specified loss in return for premiums paid. Indemnity (n) - [...] [P]rotection, as by insurance, from liabilities or penalties incurred by one's actions. The person who was rear-ended by the Zipcar member is entitled solely to recover from the member. Zipcar, as a corporate entity, is not responsible for their member's actions unless they caused the actions or (in the ever-popular) "should have known" the actions would take place. In the linked article [1] from the Reuters blog, the court ruled that Zipcar is a car rental company. All car rental companies are not responsible for the actions of the people who pay to rent the cars. The insurer that provides coverage that people buy through Zipcar is responsible for fulfilling the terms of the policy, but that is a contract between the insurer and the insured. Zipcar bears no corporate liability, which is where the person whose car was rear-ended erred. If she had sued the driver and Liberty Mutual, or just the driver, she would have prevailed if the driver had been found at fault and could have recovered from the driver's insurance company. I can't tell, from either article, why she didn't go this route, since it's what thousands of people who are involved in wrecks do every year. 1 - http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1202462707131&CarSharing_Company_Entitled_to_Same_Liability_Shield_as_Rental_Firms_Court_Rules http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1202462707131&CarS... (I used to do auto insurance-related work in a former career and find the entire process needlessly complex.)
dantheman 16y ago
Wow - I didn't realize they had such poor insurance: Beginning November 1, 2007, for Zipcar members 21 years of age or older, our insurance coverage consists of a combined single limit of $300,000 per accident, meaning that all third party bodily injuries, or property damage costs relating to the accident covered in the aggregate up to $300,000. For drivers under 21, we provide coverage up to state-mandated levels, which vary by the state in which the accident occurs. Zipcars are covered under a vehicle collision policy. If the total amount of the injuries and/or property damage exceeds our coverage limits, Zipcar members are responsible for this excess and will be contacted by either Zipcar, our insurance provider – Liberty Mutual – or the insurance company representing another driver involved in the accident. You think they'd charge a little more to give you better insurance, or at least give you the option of securing better insurance.
davidmurphy 16y ago
My Mom, who doesn't have a car and otherwise was interested in Zipcar, won't rent from them for this reason. Too bad.
oli17 16y ago
xcn
oli17 16y ago
b,

13 points by px 16y ago

What insurance do you want them to provide? They can't be held liable for every jackass with a drivers license that rents on of their vehicles.

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
techsupporter 16y ago
They're not. According to "How it Works" [1], "[c]omprehensive insurance is included as a part of the low hourly and daily rate." However, Zipcar does not let "every jackass with a driver's license" rent one of their vehicles. You have to apply [2] and be accepted for membership in the service. Meeting their requirements means, among other things, you must: "* Have had no more than two 'incidents' (moving violations PLUS accidents) in the past three years and no more than one incident in the past 18 months * Have had no major violations in the past three years * Have had no alcohol violations in the past seven years" [3] They're only insuring the customers they choose to insure, and should be doing so according to the "comprehensive coverage" their advertising states. Their insurance does not seem to require anyone to carry other insurance, and doesn't seem to be subordinate to any existing insurance, beyond the subscriber paying a $500 deductible[4], therefore Zipcar needs to pay up 1 - http://www.zipcar.com/how/whatsincluded http://www.zipcar.com/how/whatsincluded 2 - http://www.zipcar.com/seattle/apply/?account_id=&group_id= http://www.zipcar.com/seattle/apply/?account_id=&group_i... 3 - http://www.zipcar.com/how/faqs/one-faq?faq_number=1 http://www.zipcar.com/how/faqs/one-faq?faq_number=1 4 - http://www.zipcar.com/how/faqs/one-faq?faq_number=28 http://www.zipcar.com/how/faqs/one-faq?faq_number=28
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]

snsr 16y ago

<imaginary bq>it seems they’re still interested in putting liability onto their members when there’s an accident, like the time when Zipcar member Dale Douglas rear-ended Leslie Minto. Minto took Zipcar to court, but Zipcar won, saying that it was not liable “for harm to persons or property that results or arises out of the use, operation, or possession of [their vehicles] during the period of the rental or lease”.</end bq> Isn't this precisely why drivers/owners are compelled to purchase insurance? Dude is lucky he didn't kill someone.

MartinCron 16y ago
Isn't this precisely why drivers/owners are compelled to purchase insurance? The contentious issue is that the zipcar marketing implies that "comprehensive" insurance is included. They don't require you to have outside insurance, and they don't even offer you an opportunity to (through them) get more (specifically liability) insurance at an additional cost. I don't know about you, but when I see the word "comprehensive", I tend to think it covers everything. The concept of the car sharing service is that it's something you use rarely. Paying to be insured 24/7/365 for something that you use once or twice a month seems wasteful. I'm not even sure it's possible to get insurance for car sharing services through traditional insurers. In any case, it seems like far more of a hassle than checking a checkbox to pay more to get some additional insurance through zipcar directly.

zach 16y ago

"It seems they’re still interested in putting liability onto their members when there’s an accident"? Of course -- they should be! Insuring someone is totally different from assuming liability, is it not? The article totally lost me at this point.

riffer 16y ago
Agreed (and upvoted), although I come to a different conclusion. When potential Zipcar customers see the marketing materials that mention comprehensive insurance, are they being mislead by that marketing? I suspect so. They don't have an obligation to cover liability or provide insurance that covers liability, but they do have a responsibility to be clear on the marketing side.
- techsupporter 16y ago
  Zipcar is not liable for the actions of its customers, insofar as the insurance coverage is concerned. Insurance (n) - [...] D. Coverage by a contract binding a party to indemnify another against specified loss in return for premiums paid. Indemnity (n) - [...] [P]rotection, as by insurance, from liabilities or penalties incurred by one's actions. The person who was rear-ended by the Zipcar member is entitled solely to recover from the member. Zipcar, as a corporate entity, is not responsible for their member's actions unless they caused the actions or (in the ever-popular) "should have known" the actions would take place. In the linked article [1] from the Reuters blog, the court ruled that Zipcar is a car rental company. All car rental companies are not responsible for the actions of the people who pay to rent the cars. The insurer that provides coverage that people buy through Zipcar is responsible for fulfilling the terms of the policy, but that is a contract between the insurer and the insured. Zipcar bears no corporate liability, which is where the person whose car was rear-ended erred. If she had sued the driver and Liberty Mutual, or just the driver, she would have prevailed if the driver had been found at fault and could have recovered from the driver's insurance company. I can't tell, from either article, why she didn't go this route, since it's what thousands of people who are involved in wrecks do every year. 1 - http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1202462707131&CarSharing_Company_Entitled_to_Same_Liability_Shield_as_Rental_Firms_Court_Rules http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1202462707131&CarS... (I used to do auto insurance-related work in a former career and find the entire process needlessly complex.)

dantheman 16y ago

Wow - I didn't realize they had such poor insurance: Beginning November 1, 2007, for Zipcar members 21 years of age or older, our insurance coverage consists of a combined single limit of $300,000 per accident, meaning that all third party bodily injuries, or property damage costs relating to the accident covered in the aggregate up to $300,000. For drivers under 21, we provide coverage up to state-mandated levels, which vary by the state in which the accident occurs. Zipcars are covered under a vehicle collision policy. If the total amount of the injuries and/or property damage exceeds our coverage limits, Zipcar members are responsible for this excess and will be contacted by either Zipcar, our insurance provider – Liberty Mutual – or the insurance company representing another driver involved in the accident. You think they'd charge a little more to give you better insurance, or at least give you the option of securing better insurance.

davidmurphy 16y ago

My Mom, who doesn't have a car and otherwise was interested in Zipcar, won't rent from them for this reason. Too bad.

oli17 16y ago

xcn

oli17 16y ago