7 ms·

Craigslist has one of the worst UX. How come has it not been improved in years? Why doesn't Craigslist get any competition? It should be trivial to implement s

Craigslist has one of the worst UX. How come has it not been improved in years? Why doesn't Craigslist get any competition? It should be trivial to implement something that's 10 times better...

bluedino 9y ago
What's wrong with the UI? If I could change one thing about craiglist it would be the junk/scammers. Competition for craigslist is hard because of network effects.
- rkho 9y ago
  The comment you responded to specifically mentioned UX, not UI. Junk and scammers are definitely part of the UX.
  - WWKong 9y ago
    What isn't?
    - rkho 9y ago
      I can't think of anything at this exact moment that does not contribute to UX. My response was regarding the assumption that the parent comment of mine equating UI with UX.
trowawee 9y ago
Counterpoint: their UX works perfectly well for them (see: $690m in revenue) and any proposed overhaul would carry potentially disastrous costs (see: Digg's site-killing redesign). Redesigning for the sake of change is not inherently good. Also, on a personal level, I've come to appreciate CL's design, and I very much appreciate its consistency. I don't use CL all the time - I go to it sometimes for things like furniture I know I can't get too attached to, or rental listings. It took a little time investment maybe 15 years ago to learn how the site worked, but once you know how it works, it's fairly easy to navigate, and they have never required me to relearn the site, no matter how long I go without using it. There's serious value in that. Add in the network effect that's killing the new apps trying to challenge it and you have a behemoth.
- bpicolo 9y ago
  > Digg's site-killing redesign Wasn't that all because they entirely changed the content model though? It wasn't just a UI change. Wasn't it because paid-for-junk was going to be most of what was in your face or something of that nature?
  - trowawee 9y ago
    Sure, but that's a UX change, and that's what the parent was suggesting for CL.
    - wingerlang 9y ago
      Just because they both are UX changes doesn't mean the parent was suggesting the same changes.
douche 9y ago
When I hard reload the Craigslist home page for my state, it downloads right around 150 kb. That is a thing of beauty.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- phkahler 9y ago
  >> When I hard reload the Craigslist home page for my state, it downloads right around 150 kb. >> That is a thing of beauty. I really find it sad that it's such an anomaly.
  - bpicolo 9y ago
    Text-only content does not make a ton of sense for a whole lot of websites.
    - phkahler 9y ago
      A few graphics shouldn't cause much bloat, and there is way too much JS out there today. IMHO of course.
      - bpicolo 9y ago
        > and there is way too much JS out there today Heh, well unfortunately the web doesn't get much in the way of alternative : (
_jal 9y ago
Because, as best I can tell, many more people actually like the ultra-simple UX than dislike it. I wish more sites would go retro. It really is a breath of fresh air after so many sites that make me feel like I'm fighting my way through the "experience" they're trying to shove down my series of tubes.
- miguelrochefort 9y ago
  I'm all for simplicity. What I also like is consistency. Craigslist's UI is not consistent.
Stanleyc23 9y ago
My theory is because Craigslist deeply rooted network effects in the low end of the market. Competing in the low end means that its a volume based game because each unit of value (each craigslist posting) is low. A new company trying to gain momentum capturing a small user base does't work because in this smaller stage of the company you have no network effects. If you try to steal those low end customers with a 10x product, you will spend a ton of money to capture users that aren't very valuable. If you make something that adds 10x more value, with people who want 10x in value, then by design you work yourself out of Craigslist's turf like AirBnB (they started hacky low end but now are moving into higher end listings to drive growth). in short, I believe there is a valley of death when you try "siege tactics" on Craigslist's network effects.
nkrisc 9y ago
> How come has it not been improved in years? Because it works. It's simply, "good enough.
- miguelrochefort 9y ago
  Good enough is not enough.
  - nkrisc 9y ago
    There is nothing wrong with good enough. It's the perfectly acceptable middle ground.
  - tunap 9y ago
    A couple quotes I recall from ENG 101: "Better is the enemy of good enough." and "Simple is the most advanced tech." Believe it or not, non-tech people do not want to learn the latest, greatest UI. They want it to work. Full stop. The shiny new attack surfaces....er,... features and the vicious circle of security breaches & updates may well extinguish the public's enthusiasm for "new". Ever see an average Iphone or Android user after a nightly upgrade? It isn't pretty when a user's functionality/productivity is torpedoed by a new design +/- features of new OS. As a tech savvy pro, however, YMMV.
jandrese 9y ago
What's wrong with their UX? You click on a category to narrow the scope and then search using the searchbar. The only time it is an issue is if you aren't sure what category you want or maybe you aren't quite sure where you live. Listings can be a mixed bag, but that's entirely user data so it's hard to fault Craigslist too much. IMHO it's better than having some 5 page form you have to fill out every time you list something which people will just screw up anyway.
bovermyer 9y ago
Craigslist has competition. However, it works really well, loads very fast, and makes a lot of money. There's no motivation, then, to make the UX "better."
- miguelrochefort 9y ago
  No motivation? How about not making your users miserable?
  - ddingus 9y ago
    They aren't. I love that simple, fast, lean interface. Learned it once, done, works when I need it.
  - marssaxman 9y ago
    They'd make me miserable if they ever abandoned it. I love their functional, predictable, useful, uncomplicated design. It does exactly what it needs to and nothing more. I never feel like anyone is trying to coerce me into their way of looking at the world; it's just a classified-ads database.
  - LordKano 9y ago
    No matter what they do, they're going to make someone miserable. As it stands, they've chosen to make the people who don't use the site miserable. I'm not sure why you'd expect them to make the people who do use it miserable.
criddell 9y ago
> It should be trivial to implement something that's 10 times better... What would you be optimizing for? What changes could you make that wouldn't increase the page size or slow the loading speed?
- miguelrochefort 9y ago
  - Make the UI consistent - Stop using abbreviations everywhere (at least in the French version) - Add structure and semantics to content (not just some blank text fields where people type arbitrary descriptions) - Improve classification using image recognition and mechanical turks - Make an open API available - Get rid of sub-domains - Add trust/reputation mechanisms
  - wvenable 9y ago
    > Add trust/reputation mechanisms This seems like a good idea on the surface but it's ultimately exclusionary. If I want to sell something really occasionally how much trouble do have to go through to maintain this reputation. As it stands, I still can't participate in stack overflow effectively because of their heavy-handed reputation system.
  - creepydata 9y ago
    I think you are confused as to what Craigslist is/wants to be. Wtf is wrong with subdomains? There's nothing inconsistent about the UI.
    - miguelrochefort 9y ago
      > There's nothing inconsistent about the UI. Are you kidding me? http://i.imgur.com/xMOtMuH.png http://i.imgur.com/xMOtMuH.png
- pkamb 9y ago
  - Global / Region search - Alerts - Some kind of historical record of ads - Increased focus on listing from your mobile phone (camera)
LordKano 9y ago
I don't think you should have been down-voted but I don't think you understand. Craigslist is so popular because of its simplicity. It's quick. It's light. It's easy. It works and it works well. I don't think there are many potential customers out there thinking "You know what the world needs? Craigslist for web 2.0 with AJAX, JSON, HTML5 and Flash elements." If you think I'm misreading the marketplace, please feel free to launch your own competitor. I'll happily check it out, at least once.
- pkamb 9y ago
  Craigslist doesn't work well though. It looks fine. It loads quickly. But the overall usage to complete your goal is terrible compared to a modern app in the same space such as Tinder or AirBnB.
  - therealjumbo 9y ago
    Tinder doesn't even have a desktop site/app so that's not a good example. I also disagree, I think overall usage to complete your goal is fine, it looks a little old but whatever.
sergiotapia 9y ago
They do have competition. Every deal I've done either selling or buying second-hand things has been through OfferUp. It's amazing and miles ahead of Craigslists' horrible UX.
reeddavid 9y ago
You're right. Just because everyone uses it, doesn't mean it's "good". By making most ads free, Craigslist dominates the market even though they have a poor product. Take these examples: - Buy a car. Poor make/model/year metadata requires loose searches to identify cars with keywords. So you end up sorting through irrelevant cars, or missing out on the ones you want to see. - Find an apartment. Map search was finally introduced after Padmapper did it. Before then, you could search by the names of neighborhoods, but then you'd have the same problem: sort through tons of mis-categorized results, or miss out on the apartments you wanted to see. - Buy used electronics. Again, poor category metadata. Want to buy a MacBook Pro, or iPhone 7? Good luck manually sorting through results that include the word "retina" or "non-retina" - or similar issues. - Advertise your business. Great news, ads are free! Bad news: the flagging system is terribly abused, and there's no recourse because "it's free" and "the community does the flagging". In all these cases, whether I'm the buyer or the seller, I'd much rather pay a small transaction fee or advertising fee for a better marketplace. But usually, craigslist dominates. They don't dominate because the product is good, they dominate because of network effects and an artificially low (free) price for most listing categories.

Craigslist has one of the worst UX. How come has it not been improved in years? Why doesn't Craigslist get any competition? It should be trivial to implement something that's 10 times better...

bluedino 9y ago

What's wrong with the UI? If I could change one thing about craiglist it would be the junk/scammers. Competition for craigslist is hard because of network effects.

rkho 9y ago
The comment you responded to specifically mentioned UX, not UI. Junk and scammers are definitely part of the UX.
- WWKong 9y ago
  What isn't?
  - rkho 9y ago
    I can't think of anything at this exact moment that does not contribute to UX. My response was regarding the assumption that the parent comment of mine equating UI with UX.

trowawee 9y ago

Counterpoint: their UX works perfectly well for them (see: $690m in revenue) and any proposed overhaul would carry potentially disastrous costs (see: Digg's site-killing redesign). Redesigning for the sake of change is not inherently good. Also, on a personal level, I've come to appreciate CL's design, and I very much appreciate its consistency. I don't use CL all the time - I go to it sometimes for things like furniture I know I can't get too attached to, or rental listings. It took a little time investment maybe 15 years ago to learn how the site worked, but once you know how it works, it's fairly easy to navigate, and they have never required me to relearn the site, no matter how long I go without using it. There's serious value in that. Add in the network effect that's killing the new apps trying to challenge it and you have a behemoth.

bpicolo 9y ago
> Digg's site-killing redesign Wasn't that all because they entirely changed the content model though? It wasn't just a UI change. Wasn't it because paid-for-junk was going to be most of what was in your face or something of that nature?
- trowawee 9y ago
  Sure, but that's a UX change, and that's what the parent was suggesting for CL.
  - wingerlang 9y ago
    Just because they both are UX changes doesn't mean the parent was suggesting the same changes.

douche 9y ago

When I hard reload the Craigslist home page for my state, it downloads right around 150 kb. That is a thing of beauty.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
phkahler 9y ago
>> When I hard reload the Craigslist home page for my state, it downloads right around 150 kb. >> That is a thing of beauty. I really find it sad that it's such an anomaly.
- bpicolo 9y ago
  Text-only content does not make a ton of sense for a whole lot of websites.
  - phkahler 9y ago
    A few graphics shouldn't cause much bloat, and there is way too much JS out there today. IMHO of course.
    - bpicolo 9y ago
      > and there is way too much JS out there today Heh, well unfortunately the web doesn't get much in the way of alternative : (

_jal 9y ago

Because, as best I can tell, many more people actually like the ultra-simple UX than dislike it. I wish more sites would go retro. It really is a breath of fresh air after so many sites that make me feel like I'm fighting my way through the "experience" they're trying to shove down my series of tubes.

miguelrochefort 9y ago
I'm all for simplicity. What I also like is consistency. Craigslist's UI is not consistent.

Stanleyc23 9y ago

My theory is because Craigslist deeply rooted network effects in the low end of the market. Competing in the low end means that its a volume based game because each unit of value (each craigslist posting) is low. A new company trying to gain momentum capturing a small user base does't work because in this smaller stage of the company you have no network effects. If you try to steal those low end customers with a 10x product, you will spend a ton of money to capture users that aren't very valuable. If you make something that adds 10x more value, with people who want 10x in value, then by design you work yourself out of Craigslist's turf like AirBnB (they started hacky low end but now are moving into higher end listings to drive growth). in short, I believe there is a valley of death when you try "siege tactics" on Craigslist's network effects.

nkrisc 9y ago

> How come has it not been improved in years? Because it works. It's simply, "good enough.

miguelrochefort 9y ago
Good enough is not enough.
- nkrisc 9y ago
  There is nothing wrong with good enough. It's the perfectly acceptable middle ground.
- tunap 9y ago
  A couple quotes I recall from ENG 101: "Better is the enemy of good enough." and "Simple is the most advanced tech." Believe it or not, non-tech people do not want to learn the latest, greatest UI. They want it to work. Full stop. The shiny new attack surfaces....er,... features and the vicious circle of security breaches & updates may well extinguish the public's enthusiasm for "new". Ever see an average Iphone or Android user after a nightly upgrade? It isn't pretty when a user's functionality/productivity is torpedoed by a new design +/- features of new OS. As a tech savvy pro, however, YMMV.

jandrese 9y ago

What's wrong with their UX? You click on a category to narrow the scope and then search using the searchbar. The only time it is an issue is if you aren't sure what category you want or maybe you aren't quite sure where you live. Listings can be a mixed bag, but that's entirely user data so it's hard to fault Craigslist too much. IMHO it's better than having some 5 page form you have to fill out every time you list something which people will just screw up anyway.

bovermyer 9y ago

Craigslist has competition. However, it works really well, loads very fast, and makes a lot of money. There's no motivation, then, to make the UX "better."

miguelrochefort 9y ago
No motivation? How about not making your users miserable?
- ddingus 9y ago
  They aren't. I love that simple, fast, lean interface. Learned it once, done, works when I need it.
- marssaxman 9y ago
  They'd make me miserable if they ever abandoned it. I love their functional, predictable, useful, uncomplicated design. It does exactly what it needs to and nothing more. I never feel like anyone is trying to coerce me into their way of looking at the world; it's just a classified-ads database.
- LordKano 9y ago
  No matter what they do, they're going to make someone miserable. As it stands, they've chosen to make the people who don't use the site miserable. I'm not sure why you'd expect them to make the people who do use it miserable.

criddell 9y ago

> It should be trivial to implement something that's 10 times better... What would you be optimizing for? What changes could you make that wouldn't increase the page size or slow the loading speed?

miguelrochefort 9y ago
- Make the UI consistent - Stop using abbreviations everywhere (at least in the French version) - Add structure and semantics to content (not just some blank text fields where people type arbitrary descriptions) - Improve classification using image recognition and mechanical turks - Make an open API available - Get rid of sub-domains - Add trust/reputation mechanisms
- wvenable 9y ago
  > Add trust/reputation mechanisms This seems like a good idea on the surface but it's ultimately exclusionary. If I want to sell something really occasionally how much trouble do have to go through to maintain this reputation. As it stands, I still can't participate in stack overflow effectively because of their heavy-handed reputation system.
- creepydata 9y ago
  I think you are confused as to what Craigslist is/wants to be. Wtf is wrong with subdomains? There's nothing inconsistent about the UI.
  - miguelrochefort 9y ago
    > There's nothing inconsistent about the UI. Are you kidding me? http://i.imgur.com/xMOtMuH.png http://i.imgur.com/xMOtMuH.png
pkamb 9y ago
- Global / Region search - Alerts - Some kind of historical record of ads - Increased focus on listing from your mobile phone (camera)

LordKano 9y ago

I don't think you should have been down-voted but I don't think you understand. Craigslist is so popular because of its simplicity. It's quick. It's light. It's easy. It works and it works well. I don't think there are many potential customers out there thinking "You know what the world needs? Craigslist for web 2.0 with AJAX, JSON, HTML5 and Flash elements." If you think I'm misreading the marketplace, please feel free to launch your own competitor. I'll happily check it out, at least once.

pkamb 9y ago
Craigslist doesn't work well though. It looks fine. It loads quickly. But the overall usage to complete your goal is terrible compared to a modern app in the same space such as Tinder or AirBnB.
- therealjumbo 9y ago
  Tinder doesn't even have a desktop site/app so that's not a good example. I also disagree, I think overall usage to complete your goal is fine, it looks a little old but whatever.

sergiotapia 9y ago

They do have competition. Every deal I've done either selling or buying second-hand things has been through OfferUp. It's amazing and miles ahead of Craigslists' horrible UX.

reeddavid 9y ago

You're right. Just because everyone uses it, doesn't mean it's "good". By making most ads free, Craigslist dominates the market even though they have a poor product. Take these examples: - Buy a car. Poor make/model/year metadata requires loose searches to identify cars with keywords. So you end up sorting through irrelevant cars, or missing out on the ones you want to see. - Find an apartment. Map search was finally introduced after Padmapper did it. Before then, you could search by the names of neighborhoods, but then you'd have the same problem: sort through tons of mis-categorized results, or miss out on the apartments you wanted to see. - Buy used electronics. Again, poor category metadata. Want to buy a MacBook Pro, or iPhone 7? Good luck manually sorting through results that include the word "retina" or "non-retina" - or similar issues. - Advertise your business. Great news, ads are free! Bad news: the flagging system is terribly abused, and there's no recourse because "it's free" and "the community does the flagging". In all these cases, whether I'm the buyer or the seller, I'd much rather pay a small transaction fee or advertising fee for a better marketplace. But usually, craigslist dominates. They don't dominate because the product is good, they dominate because of network effects and an artificially low (free) price for most listing categories.