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It's a cute scenario. I'm not a lawyer, but I'm fairly sure they can compel me to lie to you. I think the standard is that the police can, at least with a warr

It's a cute scenario. I'm not a lawyer, but I'm fairly sure they can compel me to lie to you. I think the standard is that the police can, at least with a warrant, compel you to do anything that you would do normally. For instance, if you're a company that keeps a database of user actions, they can compel you to give them access to that database, because accessing that data is a part of your normal business process. They can even compel you to write some software to extract the specific data they need (within reason). And in your scenario, I am able to access my own computer, and do so regularly as part of my normal life. You probably came up with this scenario thinking about so-called "warrant canaries," which hinge on law enforcement not being able to force companies to lie to their users. But it should be noted there is no case law or precedent regarding warrant canaries, and the legal consensus seems to be it is unlikely to hold up in court.

mirimir 9y ago
Yes, I was thinking of warrant canaries. I'm also unaware of case law or precedent. But I do note that Riseup did not update its warrant canary while under subpoena. This generated considerable controversy. But Riseup made no statement either way, except for this enigmatic tweet: listen to the hummingbird, whose wings you cannot see, listen to the hummingbird, don't listen to me. #LeonardCohenpic.twitter.com/PZisFt6mHm — riseup.net (@riseupnet) November 11, 2016 So it seemed to work, and I haven't seen any fallout. How about this. When you use my FDE as a service, part of my payment is selling your computer to me for a nominal fee. So you're never using your computer, you're using mine. And my lease agreement requires confirmation that you're not under compulsion. Fantasizing a bit, one can imagine a multi-probe EEG net that could report your state of mind. Perhaps the remote processor could be trained to recognize coercion, nervousness, etc.
- openasocket 9y ago
  > my lease agreement requires confirmation that you're not under compulsion. You can't have a "no cops" requirement in a lease agreement, that wouldn't be remotely enforceable. > Fantasizing a bit, one can imagine a multi-probe EEG net that could report your state of mind Ordinarily, at this point, the warrant would then be given to you, not me. This is complicated by the fact that you presumably are trying to stay anonymous and there are questions of jurisdiction. But they will at least try to contact you and compel you to give them access. If you refuse now you're committing a crime, and they'll go after you. So you'd better hope your OPSEC is solid. And, after a certain point of ridiculousness, they might go after me, saying I purposefully used this system to elude lawful requests for access (which would be true!). That's going to be tricky to prove, and at that point I don't have enough legal knowledge to figure out if that holds up.

mirimir 9y ago

Yes, I was thinking of warrant canaries. I'm also unaware of case law or precedent. But I do note that Riseup did not update its warrant canary while under subpoena. This generated considerable controversy. But Riseup made no statement either way, except for this enigmatic tweet: listen to the hummingbird, whose wings you cannot see, listen to the hummingbird, don't listen to me. #LeonardCohenpic.twitter.com/PZisFt6mHm — riseup.net (@riseupnet) November 11, 2016 So it seemed to work, and I haven't seen any fallout. How about this. When you use my FDE as a service, part of my payment is selling your computer to me for a nominal fee. So you're never using your computer, you're using mine. And my lease agreement requires confirmation that you're not under compulsion. Fantasizing a bit, one can imagine a multi-probe EEG net that could report your state of mind. Perhaps the remote processor could be trained to recognize coercion, nervousness, etc.

openasocket 9y ago
> my lease agreement requires confirmation that you're not under compulsion. You can't have a "no cops" requirement in a lease agreement, that wouldn't be remotely enforceable. > Fantasizing a bit, one can imagine a multi-probe EEG net that could report your state of mind Ordinarily, at this point, the warrant would then be given to you, not me. This is complicated by the fact that you presumably are trying to stay anonymous and there are questions of jurisdiction. But they will at least try to contact you and compel you to give them access. If you refuse now you're committing a crime, and they'll go after you. So you'd better hope your OPSEC is solid. And, after a certain point of ridiculousness, they might go after me, saying I purposefully used this system to elude lawful requests for access (which would be true!). That's going to be tricky to prove, and at that point I don't have enough legal knowledge to figure out if that holds up.