5 ms·

I'm generally in favor of everyone's computer working but I think it would be wonderful if the WannaCry malware infects the NSA to the point they're shut down f

by smoyer 9y ago

I'm generally in favor of everyone's computer working but I think it would be wonderful if the WannaCry malware infects the NSA to the point they're shut down for a week or two. I don't know if I'll call it karma but they should at least share some of the pain. If it hadn't been the health-care system, I would have been cheering for the compromise of any of the five-eyes partners as well. Note to the NSA/CIA - I want to cheer for my government, to be proud to be an American (even the U.S. variety) and it would be wonderful if the U.S. could return to being viewed as "the good guys". I'm not sure that type of patriotism will ever return.

accountyaccount 9y ago
>and it would be wonderful if the U.S. could return to being viewed as "the good guys" The window that this occurred in is much smaller than many people realize. You need to go back in time a little, but not too far back — also, only look at our actions abroad and mostly ignore how we treated certain people domestically. From the outside looking in, the US has mostly kind of been the "eh, okay I guess?" guys. Or the "good by contrast guys."
- smoyer 9y ago
  "The window that this occurred in is much smaller than many people realize" Maybe the default position for all governments (and people?) should be "they did something good at this instant in time". It's kind of sad to view the world that way but probably safer than swallowing the revisionist explanations that are usually offered up.
  - accountyaccount 9y ago
    I think it's helpful to overlay a lot of American history with a timeline of not-so-great things that were happening at the same time. For example, the american revolutionary war was an important event... but also we had slaves (some who were forced to fight), it fractured many indigenous tribes, and the first presidential election 10 years later only allowed male landowners to vote.
ApolloFortyNine 9y ago
It concerns me more that the UK's healthcare system runs on a no longer supported operating system. Something that important should be kept up to date. The UK's NHS computers were running Windows XP (which was EOL). http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/12/nhs-hit-major-cyber-attack-hackers-demanding-ransom/ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/12/nhs-hit-major-cyb... Otherwise, the patch to fix the security flaw was released back in March before it was a real problem. There will always be holes in software, it's important to have a system in place to patch them in a timely manner.
- DanBC 9y ago
  "only" 5% of the computers are running XP, which is an improvement driven through after a report given to Hunt last year about the risks of old IT. It wasn't just affecting XP machines, it was affecting other machines if they hadn't been patched. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39918426 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39918426 > We know there have been warnings before about IT security in the NHS - last summer a review said it needed looking at. > But the problem is that over the last three years the capital budget - which is a ring-fenced fund used to pay for buildings and equipment - has been raided by the government to bail out day-to-day services, such as A&E. > Last year a fifth of the capital budget was diverted. > That, of course, makes it more difficult for trusts to keep their systems up to date. EDIT: Here's a better post https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/blog/nhs-cyber-attack-about-more-old-computers https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/blog/nhs-cyber-att... > One of the problems with digital government is reforming the technology infrastructure which underpins its services (‘legacy’). There has been much speculation about how the continued use of Windows XP operating systems within the NHS contributed to the cyber-attack. Although only 4.7% of NHS devices use Windows XP, these are spread across 90% of trusts. Computers that have not been updated with Microsoft’s latest software were susceptible to the ransomware. Meanwhile, NHS legacies are further complicated by the patchwork of contracts across trusts. This digital fragmentation is in keeping with the scale of fragmentation within the NHS itself.
  - ApolloFortyNine 9y ago
    > it was affecting other machines if they hadn't been patched. My point is mission critical software should always be up to date. To go months without installing the update on important systems is unacceptable. It doesn't matter who originally released this exploit, exploits routinely become available. It's about fixing them in a timely manner when they appear.
badosu 9y ago
> it would be wonderful if the U.S. could return to being viewed as "the good guys" You mean internally or that there was ever a time where the external perception of US was of "good guys"? I mean, I can't possibly imagine the latter being the case. For instance: it's pretty common knowledge in South America of US involvement in setting up bloody dictatorships in the 60's and 70's. Only if US citizens believe in their own soft power propaganda (e.g. Hollywood). See [0], it gets pretty ridiculous after 1949. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_r... Edit (Relevant Carlin): Israeli murderers are called commandos, Arab commandos are called terrorists. Contra killers are called freedom fighters. Well, if crime fighters fight crime and fire fighters fight fire, what do freedom fighters fight? They never mention that part to us, do they?
mitchellshow 9y ago
> I think it would be wonderful if the WannaCry malware infects the NSA to the point they're shut down for a week or two Would it also be "wonderful" if the US Army "shut down for a week or two?" How about the Coast Guard? As an American, NSA protects you, that is NSA's job. NSA's job is not to impress you or make you think they are good guys.
- cestith 9y ago
  Let's accept your analogy. They're military and they let sophisticated weapons systems go to the enemy. If the US Army let someone steal a squadron of Apache helicopters that were used to level a few civilian towns, that particular base where the theft occurred (at least) would be on lockdown and under harsh review for some time. If someone wishes one of the targets hit with the stolen vehicles was the base from which the theft happened so that they shared in the misery they caused, what's wrong with that? Are people supposed to say, "Well, little Billy is dead and we'll never see him grow up, but at least the fools who let this happen are okay?"
  - mitchellshow 9y ago
    What gives you the impression that NSA is not under harsh review? There have been many instances reported publicly about US tech falling into enemy hands. I've included a few from recent memory. This is something that happens, and I share your concern. It is a bad thing that happens, among many bad things that happen in war. But to optimize away from it, would be to sacrifice the technological edge that keeps Americans safe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran–U.S._RQ-170_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran–U.S._RQ-170_incident https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/01/isis-captured-2300-humvee-armoured-vehicles-from-iraqi-forces-in-mosul https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/01/isis-captured-... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/aug/15/us-helicopter-pakistan-china-wreckage https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/aug/15/us-helicopter-...
- smoyer 9y ago
  No ... I think I was pretty specific about including the agencies who operate without enough oversight, frequently flaunt the law (and ignore the constitution) and are eroding the rights of the people they're supposedly serving. The military is completely different. The troops on the ground are generally following orders and highly disciplined. There are definitely occasions where I don't agree with the orders they're following - I can't possibly fault the soldiers. Adding the Coast Guard to the mix is borderline ridiculous. And you completely forgot the Red Cross - there are some very militant nurses involved.
r00fus 9y ago
I don't think you understand how corrupt security-theatre government reasoning works (see TSA) 1) We need funding to fight X 2) If X happens anyway we need more funding As long as there is a veneer of democracy over the outright theft of tax funds, there will be a way for these "essential" agencies to grow until they kill/consume their host.
- lkbm 9y ago
  > 1) We need funding to fight X 2) If X happens anyway we need more funding That does seem to be roughly the stance taken by security agencies, but it also occurs to me that I view this as a completely reasonable argument when I hear it from an IT department or the CDC. I want the CDC to have lots of resources to protect against serious outbreaks of infectious disease, and if one happens, I see it as a signal of three possibilities: (a) They need more resources. (b) They need to fix their methods. (c) Nothing's 100% safe and we should accept that. I definitely see TSA as mostly pretty much 100% (b)+(c) (mostly (c), to be honest), but the reasoning you cided isn't always wrong--sometimes (a) is legitimately the case, so you can't dismiss it out of hand.

by smoyer 9y ago

accountyaccount 9y ago

>and it would be wonderful if the U.S. could return to being viewed as "the good guys" The window that this occurred in is much smaller than many people realize. You need to go back in time a little, but not too far back — also, only look at our actions abroad and mostly ignore how we treated certain people domestically. From the outside looking in, the US has mostly kind of been the "eh, okay I guess?" guys. Or the "good by contrast guys."

smoyer 9y ago
"The window that this occurred in is much smaller than many people realize" Maybe the default position for all governments (and people?) should be "they did something good at this instant in time". It's kind of sad to view the world that way but probably safer than swallowing the revisionist explanations that are usually offered up.
- accountyaccount 9y ago
  I think it's helpful to overlay a lot of American history with a timeline of not-so-great things that were happening at the same time. For example, the american revolutionary war was an important event... but also we had slaves (some who were forced to fight), it fractured many indigenous tribes, and the first presidential election 10 years later only allowed male landowners to vote.

ApolloFortyNine 9y ago

It concerns me more that the UK's healthcare system runs on a no longer supported operating system. Something that important should be kept up to date. The UK's NHS computers were running Windows XP (which was EOL). http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/12/nhs-hit-major-cyber-attack-hackers-demanding-ransom/ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/12/nhs-hit-major-cyb... Otherwise, the patch to fix the security flaw was released back in March before it was a real problem. There will always be holes in software, it's important to have a system in place to patch them in a timely manner.

DanBC 9y ago
"only" 5% of the computers are running XP, which is an improvement driven through after a report given to Hunt last year about the risks of old IT. It wasn't just affecting XP machines, it was affecting other machines if they hadn't been patched. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39918426 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39918426 > We know there have been warnings before about IT security in the NHS - last summer a review said it needed looking at. > But the problem is that over the last three years the capital budget - which is a ring-fenced fund used to pay for buildings and equipment - has been raided by the government to bail out day-to-day services, such as A&E. > Last year a fifth of the capital budget was diverted. > That, of course, makes it more difficult for trusts to keep their systems up to date. EDIT: Here's a better post https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/blog/nhs-cyber-attack-about-more-old-computers https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/blog/nhs-cyber-att... > One of the problems with digital government is reforming the technology infrastructure which underpins its services (‘legacy’). There has been much speculation about how the continued use of Windows XP operating systems within the NHS contributed to the cyber-attack. Although only 4.7% of NHS devices use Windows XP, these are spread across 90% of trusts. Computers that have not been updated with Microsoft’s latest software were susceptible to the ransomware. Meanwhile, NHS legacies are further complicated by the patchwork of contracts across trusts. This digital fragmentation is in keeping with the scale of fragmentation within the NHS itself.
- ApolloFortyNine 9y ago
  > it was affecting other machines if they hadn't been patched. My point is mission critical software should always be up to date. To go months without installing the update on important systems is unacceptable. It doesn't matter who originally released this exploit, exploits routinely become available. It's about fixing them in a timely manner when they appear.

badosu 9y ago

> it would be wonderful if the U.S. could return to being viewed as "the good guys" You mean internally or that there was ever a time where the external perception of US was of "good guys"? I mean, I can't possibly imagine the latter being the case. For instance: it's pretty common knowledge in South America of US involvement in setting up bloody dictatorships in the 60's and 70's. Only if US citizens believe in their own soft power propaganda (e.g. Hollywood). See [0], it gets pretty ridiculous after 1949. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_r... Edit (Relevant Carlin): Israeli murderers are called commandos, Arab commandos are called terrorists. Contra killers are called freedom fighters. Well, if crime fighters fight crime and fire fighters fight fire, what do freedom fighters fight? They never mention that part to us, do they?

mitchellshow 9y ago

> I think it would be wonderful if the WannaCry malware infects the NSA to the point they're shut down for a week or two Would it also be "wonderful" if the US Army "shut down for a week or two?" How about the Coast Guard? As an American, NSA protects you, that is NSA's job. NSA's job is not to impress you or make you think they are good guys.

cestith 9y ago
Let's accept your analogy. They're military and they let sophisticated weapons systems go to the enemy. If the US Army let someone steal a squadron of Apache helicopters that were used to level a few civilian towns, that particular base where the theft occurred (at least) would be on lockdown and under harsh review for some time. If someone wishes one of the targets hit with the stolen vehicles was the base from which the theft happened so that they shared in the misery they caused, what's wrong with that? Are people supposed to say, "Well, little Billy is dead and we'll never see him grow up, but at least the fools who let this happen are okay?"
- mitchellshow 9y ago
  What gives you the impression that NSA is not under harsh review? There have been many instances reported publicly about US tech falling into enemy hands. I've included a few from recent memory. This is something that happens, and I share your concern. It is a bad thing that happens, among many bad things that happen in war. But to optimize away from it, would be to sacrifice the technological edge that keeps Americans safe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran–U.S._RQ-170_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran–U.S._RQ-170_incident https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/01/isis-captured-2300-humvee-armoured-vehicles-from-iraqi-forces-in-mosul https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/01/isis-captured-... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/aug/15/us-helicopter-pakistan-china-wreckage https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/aug/15/us-helicopter-...
smoyer 9y ago
No ... I think I was pretty specific about including the agencies who operate without enough oversight, frequently flaunt the law (and ignore the constitution) and are eroding the rights of the people they're supposedly serving. The military is completely different. The troops on the ground are generally following orders and highly disciplined. There are definitely occasions where I don't agree with the orders they're following - I can't possibly fault the soldiers. Adding the Coast Guard to the mix is borderline ridiculous. And you completely forgot the Red Cross - there are some very militant nurses involved.

r00fus 9y ago

I don't think you understand how corrupt security-theatre government reasoning works (see TSA) 1) We need funding to fight X 2) If X happens anyway we need more funding As long as there is a veneer of democracy over the outright theft of tax funds, there will be a way for these "essential" agencies to grow until they kill/consume their host.

lkbm 9y ago
> 1) We need funding to fight X 2) If X happens anyway we need more funding That does seem to be roughly the stance taken by security agencies, but it also occurs to me that I view this as a completely reasonable argument when I hear it from an IT department or the CDC. I want the CDC to have lots of resources to protect against serious outbreaks of infectious disease, and if one happens, I see it as a signal of three possibilities: (a) They need more resources. (b) They need to fix their methods. (c) Nothing's 100% safe and we should accept that. I definitely see TSA as mostly pretty much 100% (b)+(c) (mostly (c), to be honest), but the reasoning you cided isn't always wrong--sometimes (a) is legitimately the case, so you can't dismiss it out of hand.