8 ms·

This is now fixed.. But inversely, i'm annoyed that this "upgrade phenomena" seems squarely targeted at Microsoft when people who run Linux or OSX upgrade the

This is now fixed.. But inversely, i'm annoyed that this "upgrade phenomena" seems squarely targeted at Microsoft when people who run Linux or OSX upgrade the second new shiny comes out. I'm not ranting here other than expressing a curiosity of culture that leads to cultural problems lingering much longer than they should. Windows 10 is awesome.. the experiment with "ads" sucks but its all tweakable.. just jump to Rs2 and provide feedback if there is something you do/don't like. MS listens.

mattnewton 9y ago
When Linux or OSX upgrades without my consent, rebooting while I am using it, then I will scream about it too. Until then, I see no hypocrasy.
- supernovae 9y ago
  Again, this is configurable now.
  - viridian 9y ago
    So if I fill out the paperwork in advance Microsoft won't ruin my night? How generous of them. I'm really glad that linux gaming is increasing year over year, because gaming is about the only reason I still use windows at home.
    - supernovae 9y ago
      again, this is another attack without much merit. Lots of windows users want the updates because they're asking Microsoft for them. If you want to run Linux then RUN Linux.. you don't need to rain on the MS parade for no other reason than a an apparent lack of empathy for what other human beings want to run.
      - vetinari 9y ago
        I doubt that Windows users want the update process to interrupt them at the most inconvenient time possible. The problem are not (security) updates themselves. The problem is the intrusive update process and non-security updates bringing "features" nobody asked for.
        supernovae 9y ago
        People do ask for these features. There are millions of active windows users in the Windows Preview Program that provide feedback asking for windows to be improved in many different ways. I'm not sure where these absolutely incorrect assumptions are coming from but they're entirely false. Windows believe it or not is community driven these days. MS is delivering features for its "enterprise insides" and for its "xbox insiders" and for its "windows insiders" and this is a HUGE community.
        vetinari 9y ago
        Do you think that these people (basically enthusiasts, nobody else would participate) are representative of all windows users? Do you even respect a feedback that goes against your business objectives? Because all in all, Windows is getting less and less useful and more and more annoying. No, you don't need to stuff Cortana, Onedrive or whatever new initiative you have. If I wanted it, I would sign up by myself. In my case, after I disabled the infamous KB 3035583 update for N-th time and it was back again, I lost my patience and switched the platform. I'm too old for such games. Some of my colleges still need win32 specific apps, but you can be sure, that as soon as they will be able to replace them, they will jump too.
        supernovae 9y ago
        Again, why be so condescending? Without a shred of evidence over your own personal experience and the hive mind of people who would never run windows and have philosophical angst towards Microsoft there are MILLIONS of people that want to see it better and are actively providing feedback. So much so that Microsoft releases weekly builds, has a feedback hub, throws parties, online meetings, phone calls and surveys and "quests" to have people experiment and offer feedback on shaping the future of windows. Of course these are 'enthusiasts' but that's besides the point. Its a thriving community of Microsoft paying attention to its customers and people willing to interact. I have no idea what the KB 3035583 problem is.. everyone makes mistakes. My mac had failed updates where I had to reset, my iPhone has had bad updates, my kindle fires have been borked, my android phones have been bricked, my wifi routers have been bricked.. I just take the time to learn and move on. People are obsessively convinced Microsoft is bad, for no other reason that they're not giving them another chance yet the world turns a blind eye to very similar issues across the board. Software isn't perfect. You don't fix software by never updating it. We're used to updates on Mobile/Tablets - many people are used to updates on PC/Tablet/Desktop but there are people who continually beat this non sequitur horse that PCS can't and shouldn't be updated. Software is eating the world. If people want to compare MS to google - Google updates their shit all the time - does hundreds of releases a day. Now so does Microsoft. But hot damn, if MS does it they're "Evil" and "pushing crap or features no one wants" when we full know that is BS.
GhotiFish 9y ago
I guess in the same way a farmer might listen to its cattle? A nasty disease or two would get fixed, nice food to keep them fed, but if they're telling the farmers "don't eat me" I can't imagine the farmers would be very receptive. Likewise. Stop spying on me, stop advertising to me, stop pushing products I don't want on me, stop treating my computer like your personal playground. None of this is going to gain traction. All of those are the point. No amount of listening will fix this.
- supernovae 9y ago
  It is fixed. When you upgrade to RS2 it asks you about the services and you can disable them and you can disable automatic updates. BTW, this isn't unique to MS.. phones update all the time and the concept of the phone is going to change.. soon you will have just one device that does everything. Are people going to complain that MS can't then do what Apple/Google do in regards to spying, updates & patches?
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - jessaustin 9y ago
    ...soon you will have just one device that does everything. That's already true, for people who only have a phone. In the long term, it's completely wrong. Today's "super"-devices will explode into a constantly-changing constellation, as soon as personal networking is ironed out. Future generations will laugh at caricatures of people today, who constantly tend to and obsess on one hunk of plastic to the exclusion of the wider world.
    - supernovae 9y ago
      as the IoT and "constellation" "explodes" we can only HOPE that includes auto-update.
      - jessaustin 9y ago
gregmac 9y ago
>> However most people DO care when their computers spontaneously reboot themselves with no warning (sometimes even in the middle of "active hours"!) > This is now fixed.. Once bitten, twice shy. Most if not all of the non-tech people I work with would respond to this with "yeah, well, I don't care, I don't want to take the chance it reboots during a presentation/webinar/demo/etc ever again".
- Terr_ 9y ago
  Also, forgiving a company for a technical mistake is a lot easier than trusting them again after a decision that implies they don't give a fuck about their customers.
CydeWeys 9y ago
> Windows 10 is awesome.. the experiment with "ads" sucks but its all tweakable. I don't want to have to tweak my fucking operating system to remove ads!! Also, I think we're asking too much of the average user. It's not obvious how to do most of the tweaks, so your random older/casual user won't do them, or maybe even realize that such a thing might be possible and go off to look up how to do it. They're more likely to just turn off updates.
- supernovae 9y ago
  THe "ads" are recommended apps. You can disable that.
  - CydeWeys 9y ago
    Disabling it is tweaking. The default install of Windows 10 comes with ads and all sorts of other bullshit that doesn't benefit the user (in an operating system that you paid hundreds of dollars for, mind you). You have to go out of your way to opt out of it, and most users will not ever realize that such opting out is even possible.
    - supernovae 9y ago
      Even the ads will ask you if you want to disable them.. "click here to disable future notifications" or if you open notification center you can "click here to disable future notifications". I am slightly bemused we're making excuses for people not trying anything.. especially when computers these days are all about "Expressing yourself" and "identity"..
      - windwake12 9y ago
        I shouldn't have to use gpedit to disable ads that consistently appears when using certain windows features, and which have no "Don't ask me again". Presumably some freak compatability issue (I've noticed ads always appear when I open files using a certain program).
      - 9y ago
Raknarg 9y ago
At least with Linux I can choose to install and whenever I want to install it. I don't get that freedom with windows, and it packages it's system with advertisements
- Mithaldu 9y ago
  You do get that freedom.
  - supernovae 9y ago
    heck, in Windows you know get the freedom of what Linux you want to run now that Redhat, Suse and Ubuntu will be supported ;)
valuearb 9y ago
No Microsoft sucks. It's my computer, stop hijacking it. This is why I switch to a Mac. Microsoft is 100% responsible for this malware, they trained users to turn off updates by making them unbearable.
- supernovae 9y ago
  That is your personal opinion. I stuck with windows 10 because I like it. That is my personal opinion. Learn a little empathy. I have a MacBook pro, a surface pro (windows 10), a gaming pc (windows 10), a Plex HTPC (windows 10) and an iPhone.. I'm quite happy regardless and I find all ecosystems have their +/-
  - valuearb 9y ago
    it's not my opinion, clearly they've driven customers to behave in an insecure. Clearly their customers hate the ads and the updating mechanism. That you happily tolerate it just makes you a tiny minority.
    - supernovae 9y ago
      It is your opinion, you're even using your opinion to make up stuff about me that isn't true. I clicked the option to disable this when prompted when I upgraded. It was easy and I've moved on. Life is great, i'm back to playing games, watching content and enjoying my device without it asking me if I want to upgrade office. (but my damn iPhone keeps telling me to upgrade icloud)
MertsA 9y ago
>if there is something you do/don't like. MS listens. Users have been very very vocal about dozens of things that Microsoft refuses to stop. What about all of the forced upgrades to Windows 10 without consent? For the longest time Microsoft just denied that they were even doing it. Then they just tried to justify it with marketing B.S. about how "Windows 10 is great, so no one should be complaining." Then there's the embedded spyware in Windows 10 that's not able to be removed or disabled. Even just the adware, it should go without saying that no one wanted ads to show up in their OS. This shouldn't be something I should be forced to opt out of, it shouldn't exist in the first place. I shouldn't have to deal with Microsoft installing crap like candy crush on every windows PC on the planet. Microsoft categorically doesn't listen to their users. Can you name a time when Apple or a prominent Linux distro has pulled any of this crap?
- YeGoblynQueenne 9y ago
  >> Can you name a time when Apple or a prominent Linux distro has pulled any of this crap? Yes, unfortunately. Ubuntu served Amazon ads in the dash search. No idea if they're still there (I use Fedora) but it's not like they had to ask anyone what they thought of it to be well aware that the majority of their users would think that sucks. Apple? Well now- that's the company that continuously tries to force its users to run only the apps it choses, isn't it? Apple sucks as much as MS in the way it treats its users.
  - MertsA 9y ago
    Fair point, but at least when Canonical was doing it it was just searching Amazon for something relevant to your query. All of the outrage was that doing this meant that Amazon would get searches for stuff like local file names that presented an information leak. Canonical also proxied these searches so Amazon didn't actually get enough information to tie a search back to a particular user. As for Apple though, I disagree with a lot of their design decisions but Apple hasn't introduced Spyware, Adware, and Malware into any of their products. Their walled garden philosophy is crappy but they aren't doing what Microsoft has been doing.
    - 9y ago

mattnewton 9y ago

When Linux or OSX upgrades without my consent, rebooting while I am using it, then I will scream about it too. Until then, I see no hypocrasy.

supernovae 9y ago
Again, this is configurable now.
- viridian 9y ago
  So if I fill out the paperwork in advance Microsoft won't ruin my night? How generous of them. I'm really glad that linux gaming is increasing year over year, because gaming is about the only reason I still use windows at home.
  - supernovae 9y ago
    again, this is another attack without much merit. Lots of windows users want the updates because they're asking Microsoft for them. If you want to run Linux then RUN Linux.. you don't need to rain on the MS parade for no other reason than a an apparent lack of empathy for what other human beings want to run.
    - vetinari 9y ago
      I doubt that Windows users want the update process to interrupt them at the most inconvenient time possible. The problem are not (security) updates themselves. The problem is the intrusive update process and non-security updates bringing "features" nobody asked for.
      - supernovae 9y ago
        People do ask for these features. There are millions of active windows users in the Windows Preview Program that provide feedback asking for windows to be improved in many different ways. I'm not sure where these absolutely incorrect assumptions are coming from but they're entirely false. Windows believe it or not is community driven these days. MS is delivering features for its "enterprise insides" and for its "xbox insiders" and for its "windows insiders" and this is a HUGE community.
        vetinari 9y ago
        Do you think that these people (basically enthusiasts, nobody else would participate) are representative of all windows users? Do you even respect a feedback that goes against your business objectives? Because all in all, Windows is getting less and less useful and more and more annoying. No, you don't need to stuff Cortana, Onedrive or whatever new initiative you have. If I wanted it, I would sign up by myself. In my case, after I disabled the infamous KB 3035583 update for N-th time and it was back again, I lost my patience and switched the platform. I'm too old for such games. Some of my colleges still need win32 specific apps, but you can be sure, that as soon as they will be able to replace them, they will jump too.
        supernovae 9y ago
        Again, why be so condescending? Without a shred of evidence over your own personal experience and the hive mind of people who would never run windows and have philosophical angst towards Microsoft there are MILLIONS of people that want to see it better and are actively providing feedback. So much so that Microsoft releases weekly builds, has a feedback hub, throws parties, online meetings, phone calls and surveys and "quests" to have people experiment and offer feedback on shaping the future of windows. Of course these are 'enthusiasts' but that's besides the point. Its a thriving community of Microsoft paying attention to its customers and people willing to interact. I have no idea what the KB 3035583 problem is.. everyone makes mistakes. My mac had failed updates where I had to reset, my iPhone has had bad updates, my kindle fires have been borked, my android phones have been bricked, my wifi routers have been bricked.. I just take the time to learn and move on. People are obsessively convinced Microsoft is bad, for no other reason that they're not giving them another chance yet the world turns a blind eye to very similar issues across the board. Software isn't perfect. You don't fix software by never updating it. We're used to updates on Mobile/Tablets - many people are used to updates on PC/Tablet/Desktop but there are people who continually beat this non sequitur horse that PCS can't and shouldn't be updated. Software is eating the world. If people want to compare MS to google - Google updates their shit all the time - does hundreds of releases a day. Now so does Microsoft. But hot damn, if MS does it they're "Evil" and "pushing crap or features no one wants" when we full know that is BS.

GhotiFish 9y ago

I guess in the same way a farmer might listen to its cattle? A nasty disease or two would get fixed, nice food to keep them fed, but if they're telling the farmers "don't eat me" I can't imagine the farmers would be very receptive. Likewise. Stop spying on me, stop advertising to me, stop pushing products I don't want on me, stop treating my computer like your personal playground. None of this is going to gain traction. All of those are the point. No amount of listening will fix this.

supernovae 9y ago
It is fixed. When you upgrade to RS2 it asks you about the services and you can disable them and you can disable automatic updates. BTW, this isn't unique to MS.. phones update all the time and the concept of the phone is going to change.. soon you will have just one device that does everything. Are people going to complain that MS can't then do what Apple/Google do in regards to spying, updates & patches?
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- jessaustin 9y ago
  ...soon you will have just one device that does everything. That's already true, for people who only have a phone. In the long term, it's completely wrong. Today's "super"-devices will explode into a constantly-changing constellation, as soon as personal networking is ironed out. Future generations will laugh at caricatures of people today, who constantly tend to and obsess on one hunk of plastic to the exclusion of the wider world.
  - supernovae 9y ago
    as the IoT and "constellation" "explodes" we can only HOPE that includes auto-update.
    - jessaustin 9y ago

gregmac 9y ago

>> However most people DO care when their computers spontaneously reboot themselves with no warning (sometimes even in the middle of "active hours"!) > This is now fixed.. Once bitten, twice shy. Most if not all of the non-tech people I work with would respond to this with "yeah, well, I don't care, I don't want to take the chance it reboots during a presentation/webinar/demo/etc ever again".

Terr_ 9y ago
Also, forgiving a company for a technical mistake is a lot easier than trusting them again after a decision that implies they don't give a fuck about their customers.

CydeWeys 9y ago

> Windows 10 is awesome.. the experiment with "ads" sucks but its all tweakable. I don't want to have to tweak my fucking operating system to remove ads!! Also, I think we're asking too much of the average user. It's not obvious how to do most of the tweaks, so your random older/casual user won't do them, or maybe even realize that such a thing might be possible and go off to look up how to do it. They're more likely to just turn off updates.

supernovae 9y ago
THe "ads" are recommended apps. You can disable that.
- CydeWeys 9y ago
  Disabling it is tweaking. The default install of Windows 10 comes with ads and all sorts of other bullshit that doesn't benefit the user (in an operating system that you paid hundreds of dollars for, mind you). You have to go out of your way to opt out of it, and most users will not ever realize that such opting out is even possible.
  - supernovae 9y ago
    Even the ads will ask you if you want to disable them.. "click here to disable future notifications" or if you open notification center you can "click here to disable future notifications". I am slightly bemused we're making excuses for people not trying anything.. especially when computers these days are all about "Expressing yourself" and "identity"..
    - windwake12 9y ago
      I shouldn't have to use gpedit to disable ads that consistently appears when using certain windows features, and which have no "Don't ask me again". Presumably some freak compatability issue (I've noticed ads always appear when I open files using a certain program).
    - 9y ago

Raknarg 9y ago

At least with Linux I can choose to install and whenever I want to install it. I don't get that freedom with windows, and it packages it's system with advertisements

Mithaldu 9y ago
You do get that freedom.
- supernovae 9y ago
  heck, in Windows you know get the freedom of what Linux you want to run now that Redhat, Suse and Ubuntu will be supported ;)

valuearb 9y ago

No Microsoft sucks. It's my computer, stop hijacking it. This is why I switch to a Mac. Microsoft is 100% responsible for this malware, they trained users to turn off updates by making them unbearable.

supernovae 9y ago
That is your personal opinion. I stuck with windows 10 because I like it. That is my personal opinion. Learn a little empathy. I have a MacBook pro, a surface pro (windows 10), a gaming pc (windows 10), a Plex HTPC (windows 10) and an iPhone.. I'm quite happy regardless and I find all ecosystems have their +/-
- valuearb 9y ago
  it's not my opinion, clearly they've driven customers to behave in an insecure. Clearly their customers hate the ads and the updating mechanism. That you happily tolerate it just makes you a tiny minority.
  - supernovae 9y ago
    It is your opinion, you're even using your opinion to make up stuff about me that isn't true. I clicked the option to disable this when prompted when I upgraded. It was easy and I've moved on. Life is great, i'm back to playing games, watching content and enjoying my device without it asking me if I want to upgrade office. (but my damn iPhone keeps telling me to upgrade icloud)

MertsA 9y ago

>if there is something you do/don't like. MS listens. Users have been very very vocal about dozens of things that Microsoft refuses to stop. What about all of the forced upgrades to Windows 10 without consent? For the longest time Microsoft just denied that they were even doing it. Then they just tried to justify it with marketing B.S. about how "Windows 10 is great, so no one should be complaining." Then there's the embedded spyware in Windows 10 that's not able to be removed or disabled. Even just the adware, it should go without saying that no one wanted ads to show up in their OS. This shouldn't be something I should be forced to opt out of, it shouldn't exist in the first place. I shouldn't have to deal with Microsoft installing crap like candy crush on every windows PC on the planet. Microsoft categorically doesn't listen to their users. Can you name a time when Apple or a prominent Linux distro has pulled any of this crap?

YeGoblynQueenne 9y ago
>> Can you name a time when Apple or a prominent Linux distro has pulled any of this crap? Yes, unfortunately. Ubuntu served Amazon ads in the dash search. No idea if they're still there (I use Fedora) but it's not like they had to ask anyone what they thought of it to be well aware that the majority of their users would think that sucks. Apple? Well now- that's the company that continuously tries to force its users to run only the apps it choses, isn't it? Apple sucks as much as MS in the way it treats its users.
- MertsA 9y ago
  Fair point, but at least when Canonical was doing it it was just searching Amazon for something relevant to your query. All of the outrage was that doing this meant that Amazon would get searches for stuff like local file names that presented an information leak. Canonical also proxied these searches so Amazon didn't actually get enough information to tie a search back to a particular user. As for Apple though, I disagree with a lot of their design decisions but Apple hasn't introduced Spyware, Adware, and Malware into any of their products. Their walled garden philosophy is crappy but they aren't doing what Microsoft has been doing.
  - 9y ago