4 ms·

"The basic problem of our world is that it is ruled by 20-sometings that loath working on "old" tech. The epitome of this is the FOSS world that goes through a

"The basic problem of our world is that it is ruled by 20-sometings that loath working on "old" tech. The epitome of this is the FOSS world that goes through a wrenching rewrite churn every 5 years or so as new heads take over "old" projects." Disagree thoroughly. The reason why people push shit through the security-updates channel is because of money and structural pressure from management to ensure adoption of the company's new $THING.

freehunter 9y ago
It's funny that I see the general sentiment over Windows 10 to be the opposite of Python 3. "Everyone" is mad Microsoft pushed Windows 10 too hard, meanwhile "everyone" is trying to get people to adopt Python 3 and wondering why it took big name libraries so long to convert. It's a big problem in tech, trying to get people to update. We might like to think of ourselves as progressive, but a lot of people in our world tend to be very conservative and resistant to change. Microsoft knows that as well as anyone else. The only way to ensure people are using the latest version is to stop giving them a choice. You can't always rely on people making the best choice for themselves. That sounds super authoritarian, sure, but the nice thing about technology? Microsoft isn't the only game in town. They can do whatever they want with their platform and you're free to leave. You don't need a passport, or any more money, or really even any additional knowledge at this point. You're only locked in if you choose to be locked in. *with "everyone" being the typical Internet strawman that only actually exists in a random selection of HN comments.
- a_imho 9y ago
  The only way to ensure people are using the latest version is to stop giving them a choice. You can't always rely on people making the best choice for themselves. Agree with the first part, the second needs a very twisted definition of best or themselves. Offer something people want and they will upgrade. This alone tells very much about the win10 situation. Microsoft game is lock-in, if the cost of leaving their garden is trivial they are doing something wrong!
  - freehunter 9y ago
    I have a friend who buys $20 shoes. They last him a year, and then he has to buy another pair of shoes. He laughs when I buy $70 shoes, but those $70 shoes last me four years. Over that four year period, he's spent $80 on shoes and I spent $70. I have a friend who buys $500 laptops. They last him a year, and then he has to buy another laptop. He laughs when I buy $1000 laptops, but those $1000 laptops last me three years. Over that three year period, he's spent $1500 on laptops and I spent $1000. I have a friend who uses Windows XP. Windows XP is better, it's faster, it's leaner, Aero is garbage, Metro is garbage. DirectX 12 is just a scam to get you to upgrade, there's no reason Windows XP isn't the best. But once a month he's calling me about some kind of virus he's gotten even though he runs Symantec every day. Relying on an outdated piece of software is never the best decision. If Microsoft's updates bother you that much, stop using Microsoft software. Microsoft can't lock you in to anything, and there's very little that Windows offers that OSX, or to a lesser extent Linux, doesn't offer. The arguments against switching come down to "I hate Apple/Linux", in which case you've locked yourself into one vendor for irrational reasons, or "Apple is too expensive", in which case you have to wonder if that's actually true considering you're spending hours complaining about Microsoft updates, or the worst one, "I'm a Windows developer", which... why? If you hate Microsoft enough to want to switch but Visual Studio is the only thing holding you back, I don't feel bad for you. The only slightly legitimate complaint is the lack of games, but there are a ton of games for Mac these days and consoles do exist. It's not really lock-in if you choose to be locked in.
    - a_imho 9y ago
      Windows comes preinstalled on most PCs, you are being disingenuous if you say that is not a major factor. MS was ruled to violate antitrust laws regarding web browsers. How is that for a lock in if you can just download Netscape? The arguments against switching come down to "I hate Apple/Linux" Not at all. Many people are forced to use MS software, they don't have a choice. Not just running Windows, but using various MS Office apps, formats, Skype etc. Also, there are others (mainly elderly) who are only familiar with Windows, learning another platform is not a freebie for everyone. Most apps people need have alternatives on other platforms, but there are many - besides games, that target Windows only. Well, VS being the bloatware it is, not one of them of course.
- CydeWeys 9y ago
  I'm not really seeing the corollary between Windows and Python in regards to new versions and the requiredness thereof. Windows is proprietary and has a cost, and customers of it have a business relationship with Microsoft. Python, by contrast, is free and libre, and is offered with no warranty implied. If the lack of support for Python 2 is proving to be an inconvenience for you and you won't upgrade to Python 3 for whatever reason, well then, all the source is available, and you can do the needful. Hell, you can even build, release, and distribute your own fork of Python 2 that gets continued updates. None of these options are available with Windows.

freehunter 9y ago

It's funny that I see the general sentiment over Windows 10 to be the opposite of Python 3. "Everyone" is mad Microsoft pushed Windows 10 too hard, meanwhile "everyone" is trying to get people to adopt Python 3 and wondering why it took big name libraries so long to convert. It's a big problem in tech, trying to get people to update. We might like to think of ourselves as progressive, but a lot of people in our world tend to be very conservative and resistant to change. Microsoft knows that as well as anyone else. The only way to ensure people are using the latest version is to stop giving them a choice. You can't always rely on people making the best choice for themselves. That sounds super authoritarian, sure, but the nice thing about technology? Microsoft isn't the only game in town. They can do whatever they want with their platform and you're free to leave. You don't need a passport, or any more money, or really even any additional knowledge at this point. You're only locked in if you choose to be locked in. *with "everyone" being the typical Internet strawman that only actually exists in a random selection of HN comments.

a_imho 9y ago
The only way to ensure people are using the latest version is to stop giving them a choice. You can't always rely on people making the best choice for themselves. Agree with the first part, the second needs a very twisted definition of best or themselves. Offer something people want and they will upgrade. This alone tells very much about the win10 situation. Microsoft game is lock-in, if the cost of leaving their garden is trivial they are doing something wrong!
- freehunter 9y ago
  I have a friend who buys $20 shoes. They last him a year, and then he has to buy another pair of shoes. He laughs when I buy $70 shoes, but those $70 shoes last me four years. Over that four year period, he's spent $80 on shoes and I spent $70. I have a friend who buys $500 laptops. They last him a year, and then he has to buy another laptop. He laughs when I buy $1000 laptops, but those $1000 laptops last me three years. Over that three year period, he's spent $1500 on laptops and I spent $1000. I have a friend who uses Windows XP. Windows XP is better, it's faster, it's leaner, Aero is garbage, Metro is garbage. DirectX 12 is just a scam to get you to upgrade, there's no reason Windows XP isn't the best. But once a month he's calling me about some kind of virus he's gotten even though he runs Symantec every day. Relying on an outdated piece of software is never the best decision. If Microsoft's updates bother you that much, stop using Microsoft software. Microsoft can't lock you in to anything, and there's very little that Windows offers that OSX, or to a lesser extent Linux, doesn't offer. The arguments against switching come down to "I hate Apple/Linux", in which case you've locked yourself into one vendor for irrational reasons, or "Apple is too expensive", in which case you have to wonder if that's actually true considering you're spending hours complaining about Microsoft updates, or the worst one, "I'm a Windows developer", which... why? If you hate Microsoft enough to want to switch but Visual Studio is the only thing holding you back, I don't feel bad for you. The only slightly legitimate complaint is the lack of games, but there are a ton of games for Mac these days and consoles do exist. It's not really lock-in if you choose to be locked in.
  - a_imho 9y ago
    Windows comes preinstalled on most PCs, you are being disingenuous if you say that is not a major factor. MS was ruled to violate antitrust laws regarding web browsers. How is that for a lock in if you can just download Netscape? The arguments against switching come down to "I hate Apple/Linux" Not at all. Many people are forced to use MS software, they don't have a choice. Not just running Windows, but using various MS Office apps, formats, Skype etc. Also, there are others (mainly elderly) who are only familiar with Windows, learning another platform is not a freebie for everyone. Most apps people need have alternatives on other platforms, but there are many - besides games, that target Windows only. Well, VS being the bloatware it is, not one of them of course.
CydeWeys 9y ago
I'm not really seeing the corollary between Windows and Python in regards to new versions and the requiredness thereof. Windows is proprietary and has a cost, and customers of it have a business relationship with Microsoft. Python, by contrast, is free and libre, and is offered with no warranty implied. If the lack of support for Python 2 is proving to be an inconvenience for you and you won't upgrade to Python 3 for whatever reason, well then, all the source is available, and you can do the needful. Hell, you can even build, release, and distribute your own fork of Python 2 that gets continued updates. None of these options are available with Windows.