8 ms·

I was on a internal Slack call with team the other day, I ended up having to restart to Windows to do a screenshare and switch to Skype. I ended up having to d

I was on a internal Slack call with team the other day, I ended up having to restart to Windows to do a screenshare and switch to Skype. I ended up having to delay my working day by about 45 minutes while Windows decided to do a mandatory update without any granularity of choice on when is convenient for me. That's what is frustrating. I ended up being unproductive for a whole hour because Windows forced an update on me. Windows definitely have to make it better as Troy suggests. The frequency is also costly.

kristianc 9y ago
The article points out that you can set hours when Windows will update.
- vezycash 9y ago
  What if Microsoft instead fixed the need to restart for almost every update?
  - chrischen 9y ago
    MacOS handles this perfectly. It clearly notifies you when an update will be installed if you restart.
    - UK-AL 9y ago
      Windows also tells you it will perform an update on restart. It says "Update and restart" rather than just restart.
      - ams6110 9y ago
        But it doesn't have a "restart and defer update" option. If you need to restart for some other reason, you're forced to take the update.
        jdmichal 9y ago
        In cmd or PowerShell: shutdown /r /t 0 AFAIK, this has always avoided updates.
        hackmiester 9y ago
        Holding shift while opening the power menu and clicking Restart used to do this, but admittedly, I haven't tried it in a while.
        c17r 9y ago
        I don't know about Win 10 but I get around that on Win 7 by doing "shutdown /r /t 0" for reboot and "shutdown /s /t 0" for a shutdown.
        Qwertious 9y ago
        This is why I like Linux - you don't need to learn the commandline just for basic OS functionality. Windows really needs to get a decent GUI already. ^_^
    - oneeyedpigeon 9y ago
      It also gives you the option of re-trying the update "tonight" which takes up WAY too much of my cognitive load. "Tonight" doesn't appear to be configurable, or even well-defined, although an obscure knowledge-base article tells me it's between "2:00 and 5:00 a.m", which is nothing like my expectation of what "tonight" means. Does that run if my laptop is sleeping? What about if it needs to reboot? I really should know the answers to these questions ...
      - ams6110 9y ago
        Pretty sure that "tonight" just dismisses the prompt until "tonight" at which point you'll see it again, it doesn't irrevocably schedule the update for "tonight."
        oneeyedpigeon 9y ago
        I think you're probably right which, given that "tonight" means between 02:00 and 05:00, explains why I never get around to applying those updates.
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
      - kijin 9y ago
        Windows does sometimes wake up a laptop to apply updates and put it back to sleep afterwards. This can be rather dangerous if your laptop is stuck in a backpack with no airflow on a hot day.
        vezycash 9y ago
        It's not only updates that do that. All the HP laptops I've used wake up from sleep in my bag while I'm moving. The laptop would be hot enough to toast bread when I pull it out.
    - obsurveyor 9y ago
      Yeah, the important one it offers is "Not Now". If you tell it "Not Now", it will not install that update, period. Windows 10, by default, will install those updates automatically and pick a random time or immediately reboot. If I'm out of town for 2 weeks, I cannot have my Windows 10 machine reboot, it runs the software for my security cameras and that can't start until I log back in. Thankfully, I set up Windows Update to not install updates automatically(Win10 Pro) way back when it came out and it has continued to stick. Major updates are a constant worry that they will finally break this forever when it shouldn't even be a concern in the first place.
  - pawadu 9y ago
    For that matter, why are we seeing so many updates? It seems 1/4 of my CPU cycles are used to keep the system up to date. ChromeOS updates the system once every 6 weeks and still has a far more secure system.
    - emodendroket 9y ago
      ChromeOS also does a lot less.
  - m0nty 9y ago
    Promised when XP came out, iirc.
  - OJFord 9y ago
    I haven't used Windows since 7, but then it just did whatever it could (perhaps only download) until shutdown/restart. It might've asked if I wanted to, but I just said no, and then it did it's thing whenever I was shutting down anyway. Is it not still like that? MacOS seems worse to me, since restarting when an update exists isn't sufficient: you have to remember to go back to the update and click 'update & restart'... Linux handles this best though, by a long shot.
    - masklinn 9y ago
      > Is it not still like that? MacOS seems worse to me, since restarting when an update exists isn't sufficient: you have to remember to go back to the update and click 'update & restart'... IME OSX is way better, the shutdown update process is much shorter than on Windows (where it is frustratingly long) and not all updates require rebooting.
      - ashark 9y ago
        I only got around to updating my personal MBP to Sierra today. A major OS version upgrade took less time and messed with my stuff less than some Win10 updates have. :-/
- rhodysurf 9y ago
  This still isnt always useful. I work in an office that creates and runs CFD software. It often takes days, or weeks to run and the recent windows "feature" of rebooting when it wants to update with no way to shut it off has killed so many peoples work in progress. Its insane there is no ability to only update manually.
  - masklinn 9y ago
    > Its insane there is no ability to only update manually. There is.
    - Silhouette 9y ago
      An officially supported channel that will let you select important security updates to install if and when you want to and not push anything else? Without relying on enterprise management features and the like? That would be interesting news to a lot of people, I'm sure, so please share what you know.
      - maturz 9y ago
        Disable updates then you can use http://www.windowsupdatesdownloader.com/ http://www.windowsupdatesdownloader.com/
    - rhodysurf 9y ago
      How? Ive tried group policies and the like and nothing seems to stick.
      - fwn 9y ago
        You can disable the update service. It works since at least Windows 98 and takes maybe 5 clicks.
        TremendousJudge 9y ago
        I think you can't after the anniversary update
- bigbugbag 9y ago
  The article fails to mention that rebooting is interpreted as a free "you can update my computer now" card.
  - BlackFly 9y ago
    The article also fails to mention that shutting down your computer and turning it back on will not install updates (by default). So if you regularly turn off your computer instead of rebooting it, the updates never get installed. Then one day windows realizes, holy smokes, we have to install those updates now! And proceeds to restart your computer regardless of your update preferences, typically right in the middle of your business day. Changing the updates to install on shutdown is slightly more challenging than disabling updates (it is hidden in an option about power settings on boot). So guess what people do?
- emodendroket 9y ago
  Still, the default settings can be annoying.
- post_break 9y ago
  I run two OS's on my computer. Sometimes the clock gets out of wack. Guess which OS decided to update during working hours because the clock got it wrong.
  - Rebelgecko 9y ago
    Have you had the issue where Windows updates fuck around with your EFI partition and break your bootloader? I've gone through that one a few times
    - post_break 9y ago
      Yep. I now run a different bootloader that plays nice with OSX.
    - ekimekim 9y ago
      I can do one better. Every time I boot into windows (7) it sees my md raid1 drives with the metadata at the back (long story - I was trying to boot off it and didn't do a very good job), sees a valid GPT table but that the disk length is "too small" by a little bit...and "fixes" it without asking. So every time I boot back into linux I have to repair my partition table. It's gotten to the point that any time I consider updating or doing anything major to my windows install, step 1 is to physically unplug all my other drives.
Jonnax 9y ago
It's an interesting problem. Live updates without requiring a restart is going to be a complex task, how do you reload a library in use by a program without crashing it? Especially when Windows has a decade+ of software compatibility. Their current solution is scheduling updates to periods when the computer is not in use. I think recently they added an option for you to define a set of hours where updates take place. But the problem with this is that people don't treat Windows PCs like always-on devices like they treat mobile phones and tablets. So in those night hours the computer is off forcing daytime updates.
- dozzie 9y ago
  > It's an interesting problem. Live updates without requiring a restart is going to be a complex task, how do you reload a library in use by a program without crashing it? Well, how do Linux and other unices do that?
  - pawadu 9y ago
    software: can upgrade binaries and libraries without affecting already running programs services: they are specifically designed to be updated and restarted kernel: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ksplice https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ksplice
    - dozzie 9y ago
      > services: they are specifically designed to be updated and restarted I write plenty of daemons (you call them "services"). What exactly do I write specifically for them to be able to continue to run when a library is upgraded?
      - Xylakant 9y ago
        Nothing. They just keep using the old version of the lib and thus potentially vulnerable.
        9y ago

kristianc 9y ago

The article points out that you can set hours when Windows will update.

vezycash 9y ago
What if Microsoft instead fixed the need to restart for almost every update?
- chrischen 9y ago
  MacOS handles this perfectly. It clearly notifies you when an update will be installed if you restart.
  - UK-AL 9y ago
    Windows also tells you it will perform an update on restart. It says "Update and restart" rather than just restart.
    - ams6110 9y ago
      But it doesn't have a "restart and defer update" option. If you need to restart for some other reason, you're forced to take the update.
      - jdmichal 9y ago
        In cmd or PowerShell: shutdown /r /t 0 AFAIK, this has always avoided updates.
      - hackmiester 9y ago
        Holding shift while opening the power menu and clicking Restart used to do this, but admittedly, I haven't tried it in a while.
      - c17r 9y ago
        I don't know about Win 10 but I get around that on Win 7 by doing "shutdown /r /t 0" for reboot and "shutdown /s /t 0" for a shutdown.
        Qwertious 9y ago
        This is why I like Linux - you don't need to learn the commandline just for basic OS functionality. Windows really needs to get a decent GUI already. ^_^
  - oneeyedpigeon 9y ago
    It also gives you the option of re-trying the update "tonight" which takes up WAY too much of my cognitive load. "Tonight" doesn't appear to be configurable, or even well-defined, although an obscure knowledge-base article tells me it's between "2:00 and 5:00 a.m", which is nothing like my expectation of what "tonight" means. Does that run if my laptop is sleeping? What about if it needs to reboot? I really should know the answers to these questions ...
    - ams6110 9y ago
      Pretty sure that "tonight" just dismisses the prompt until "tonight" at which point you'll see it again, it doesn't irrevocably schedule the update for "tonight."
      - oneeyedpigeon 9y ago
        I think you're probably right which, given that "tonight" means between 02:00 and 05:00, explains why I never get around to applying those updates.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - kijin 9y ago
      Windows does sometimes wake up a laptop to apply updates and put it back to sleep afterwards. This can be rather dangerous if your laptop is stuck in a backpack with no airflow on a hot day.
      - vezycash 9y ago
        It's not only updates that do that. All the HP laptops I've used wake up from sleep in my bag while I'm moving. The laptop would be hot enough to toast bread when I pull it out.
  - obsurveyor 9y ago
    Yeah, the important one it offers is "Not Now". If you tell it "Not Now", it will not install that update, period. Windows 10, by default, will install those updates automatically and pick a random time or immediately reboot. If I'm out of town for 2 weeks, I cannot have my Windows 10 machine reboot, it runs the software for my security cameras and that can't start until I log back in. Thankfully, I set up Windows Update to not install updates automatically(Win10 Pro) way back when it came out and it has continued to stick. Major updates are a constant worry that they will finally break this forever when it shouldn't even be a concern in the first place.
- pawadu 9y ago
  For that matter, why are we seeing so many updates? It seems 1/4 of my CPU cycles are used to keep the system up to date. ChromeOS updates the system once every 6 weeks and still has a far more secure system.
  - emodendroket 9y ago
    ChromeOS also does a lot less.
- m0nty 9y ago
  Promised when XP came out, iirc.
- OJFord 9y ago
  I haven't used Windows since 7, but then it just did whatever it could (perhaps only download) until shutdown/restart. It might've asked if I wanted to, but I just said no, and then it did it's thing whenever I was shutting down anyway. Is it not still like that? MacOS seems worse to me, since restarting when an update exists isn't sufficient: you have to remember to go back to the update and click 'update & restart'... Linux handles this best though, by a long shot.
  - masklinn 9y ago
    > Is it not still like that? MacOS seems worse to me, since restarting when an update exists isn't sufficient: you have to remember to go back to the update and click 'update & restart'... IME OSX is way better, the shutdown update process is much shorter than on Windows (where it is frustratingly long) and not all updates require rebooting.
    - ashark 9y ago
      I only got around to updating my personal MBP to Sierra today. A major OS version upgrade took less time and messed with my stuff less than some Win10 updates have. :-/
rhodysurf 9y ago
This still isnt always useful. I work in an office that creates and runs CFD software. It often takes days, or weeks to run and the recent windows "feature" of rebooting when it wants to update with no way to shut it off has killed so many peoples work in progress. Its insane there is no ability to only update manually.
- masklinn 9y ago
  > Its insane there is no ability to only update manually. There is.
  - Silhouette 9y ago
    An officially supported channel that will let you select important security updates to install if and when you want to and not push anything else? Without relying on enterprise management features and the like? That would be interesting news to a lot of people, I'm sure, so please share what you know.
    - maturz 9y ago
      Disable updates then you can use http://www.windowsupdatesdownloader.com/ http://www.windowsupdatesdownloader.com/
  - rhodysurf 9y ago
    How? Ive tried group policies and the like and nothing seems to stick.
    - fwn 9y ago
      You can disable the update service. It works since at least Windows 98 and takes maybe 5 clicks.
      - TremendousJudge 9y ago
        I think you can't after the anniversary update
bigbugbag 9y ago
The article fails to mention that rebooting is interpreted as a free "you can update my computer now" card.
- BlackFly 9y ago
  The article also fails to mention that shutting down your computer and turning it back on will not install updates (by default). So if you regularly turn off your computer instead of rebooting it, the updates never get installed. Then one day windows realizes, holy smokes, we have to install those updates now! And proceeds to restart your computer regardless of your update preferences, typically right in the middle of your business day. Changing the updates to install on shutdown is slightly more challenging than disabling updates (it is hidden in an option about power settings on boot). So guess what people do?
emodendroket 9y ago
Still, the default settings can be annoying.
post_break 9y ago
I run two OS's on my computer. Sometimes the clock gets out of wack. Guess which OS decided to update during working hours because the clock got it wrong.
- Rebelgecko 9y ago
  Have you had the issue where Windows updates fuck around with your EFI partition and break your bootloader? I've gone through that one a few times
  - post_break 9y ago
    Yep. I now run a different bootloader that plays nice with OSX.
  - ekimekim 9y ago
    I can do one better. Every time I boot into windows (7) it sees my md raid1 drives with the metadata at the back (long story - I was trying to boot off it and didn't do a very good job), sees a valid GPT table but that the disk length is "too small" by a little bit...and "fixes" it without asking. So every time I boot back into linux I have to repair my partition table. It's gotten to the point that any time I consider updating or doing anything major to my windows install, step 1 is to physically unplug all my other drives.

Jonnax 9y ago

It's an interesting problem. Live updates without requiring a restart is going to be a complex task, how do you reload a library in use by a program without crashing it? Especially when Windows has a decade+ of software compatibility. Their current solution is scheduling updates to periods when the computer is not in use. I think recently they added an option for you to define a set of hours where updates take place. But the problem with this is that people don't treat Windows PCs like always-on devices like they treat mobile phones and tablets. So in those night hours the computer is off forcing daytime updates.

dozzie 9y ago
> It's an interesting problem. Live updates without requiring a restart is going to be a complex task, how do you reload a library in use by a program without crashing it? Well, how do Linux and other unices do that?
- pawadu 9y ago
  software: can upgrade binaries and libraries without affecting already running programs services: they are specifically designed to be updated and restarted kernel: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ksplice https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ksplice
  - dozzie 9y ago
    > services: they are specifically designed to be updated and restarted I write plenty of daemons (you call them "services"). What exactly do I write specifically for them to be able to continue to run when a library is upgraded?
    - Xylakant 9y ago
      Nothing. They just keep using the old version of the lib and thus potentially vulnerable.
      - 9y ago