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> You must work for one of those other companies with 340,000 employees that always makes the right decisions, always puts people before policy, always maximize

> You must work for one of those other companies with 340,000 employees that always makes the right decisions, always puts people before policy, always maximizes shareholder value, always engages positively with the community, and always makes sure every single employee and customer and client and partner is 100% happy with everything that happens at all times. You should write a book about how easy that must be. It would be a bestseller. You could even sell it on Amazon, I bet. Honestly, I've written some pretty controversial things on HN, but your response is frightening. Bad behavior, behavior that some people would say is more than little evil, isn't excused because other corporations behave just as badly. The fact is that the behavior we're discussing is quite easy to get right: just stop forcing people out of their jobs when they're sick or pregnant. Your response is like saying "human rights violations are such a big problem that we shouldn't do anything about it". It's a good thing that there are people that say we should stand up against hyper-wealthy corporations who are actively trying to exploit and harm their employees, instead of making excuses and looking the other way.

paxunix 9y ago
> Your response is like saying "human rights violations are such a big problem that we shouldn't do anything about it". No, it's not like saying that at all. I'm saying that companies are large, impersonal things nonetheless filled entirely with people with very personal goals and problems all uniquely their own, and all those people have to work together. At the base of it, these are people's decisions affecting other people. Are there bad things that happen to decent people at Amazon? Of course there are, just like at any other company. Acknowledging it doesn't mean condoning it, just as you pointing it out in an inflammatory way shouldn't imply Amazon neither knows nor cares about it. Amazon is not the sum total of the bad people decisions aired out in the online press. Recognizing there are problems but not doing anything about them? _That_ is an issue worthy of scorn. If anyone's company does nothing when people problems are brought to the fore, _that_ is a problem that needs fixing. Amazon's problems are under the magnifying glass in forums like this because Amazon is doing things that make the company exceedingly visible: the good and the bad shows up under that same lens. How often do you read on Hacker News about bad people decisions that IBM or HP are making? It's naive to think that because we don't hear about them that they have never had, don't have, and never will have any of the problems for which you are excoriating Amazon.

paxunix 9y ago

> Your response is like saying "human rights violations are such a big problem that we shouldn't do anything about it". No, it's not like saying that at all. I'm saying that companies are large, impersonal things nonetheless filled entirely with people with very personal goals and problems all uniquely their own, and all those people have to work together. At the base of it, these are people's decisions affecting other people. Are there bad things that happen to decent people at Amazon? Of course there are, just like at any other company. Acknowledging it doesn't mean condoning it, just as you pointing it out in an inflammatory way shouldn't imply Amazon neither knows nor cares about it. Amazon is not the sum total of the bad people decisions aired out in the online press. Recognizing there are problems but not doing anything about them? _That_ is an issue worthy of scorn. If anyone's company does nothing when people problems are brought to the fore, _that_ is a problem that needs fixing. Amazon's problems are under the magnifying glass in forums like this because Amazon is doing things that make the company exceedingly visible: the good and the bad shows up under that same lens. How often do you read on Hacker News about bad people decisions that IBM or HP are making? It's naive to think that because we don't hear about them that they have never had, don't have, and never will have any of the problems for which you are excoriating Amazon.