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> This is part of a worrying new trend. Increasingly you can't buy software anymore, only rent. More or less agreed, but you'd probably have to concede that th

> This is part of a worrying new trend. Increasingly you can't buy software anymore, only rent. More or less agreed, but you'd probably have to concede that the existence of papers like this one and some of Google's other Spanner publications are admirable; they're being more open about the system's design than they have to be. Of course Google knows that the system's secret sauce is not the concept itself, but the cost of its implementation, the infrastructural harness to support it, and the resources to reliably operate it. Even with a rough understanding on how Spanner works, it's still going to be difficult to ever migrate off it for practical reasons alone — who else is going to be able to build and run an alternative? I have huge respect for what the Spanner team is doing, but this is a reason that Citus [1] is also very interesting to me right now. You could conceivably start out with nothing but Postgres and migrate into a Citus cluster when (and if) you need to. If a point comes where you realize that you need out, you could either (1) see if you can scale back down to simple Postgres, (2) host your own cluster on your own infrastructure with the Citus source code, or (3) migrate onto your own Postgres sharding scheme à la Instagram. At no point do you lock yourself into custom GRPC APIs which are going to be ~impossible to get off of. GCP and AWS provide hugely useful foundational IaaS, but they're incentivized to move beyond that layer and provide more custom solutions that (1) provide better margins, and (2) lock you into their services. As people and companies building on top of these clouds, we should be looking for whatever opportunities we can to keep our stacks generic so that AWS <-> GCP <-> Azure migrations are possible, even if a last resort. [1] https://www.citusdata.com/product/cloud https://www.citusdata.com/product/cloud

slackingoff2017 9y ago
Does this feel like rent seeking to you? The internet is not young anymore. It feels like cloud hosting is little more than the giants allowing controlled competition as long as you rent their servers. The platforms are just extensions of the massively powerful systems they use internally. I wonder what would happen if the open source community built a viable alternative to the cloud IaaS. Like OpenStack but not a failure :). OpenFlow has shown promise and could form the core for an open IaaS. Network virtualization is the hardest part.
- speedplane 9y ago
  > I wonder what would happen if the open source community built a viable alternative to the cloud IaaS. ... Network virtualization is the hardest part. I would think that the hardware itself is the hardest part. Companies move to the cloud because it reduces their internal OPs team, and you can scale up and down hardware extremely easily.
  - slackingoff2017 9y ago
    I respectfully disagree. Every company I've been part of moving to the cloud already had plenty of hardware. It was ease of provisioning VM's, backups, deployment, and networking that really convinced them. VMWare comes close to offering the same thing on premesis but Oracle is too obsessed with wringing money from it to let it reach it's full potential.
speedplane 9y ago
> GCE and AWS provide hugely useful foundational IaaS, but they're incentivized to move beyond that layer and provide more custom solutions that ... lock you into their services. To Google's credit, they are actually moving to a more open cloud environment. They started with Google App Engine, which definitely had lock-in with it's own custom API. But now they are pushing container services and kubernetes, which are really easy to move to other clouds or run on your own servers.

slackingoff2017 9y ago

Does this feel like rent seeking to you? The internet is not young anymore. It feels like cloud hosting is little more than the giants allowing controlled competition as long as you rent their servers. The platforms are just extensions of the massively powerful systems they use internally. I wonder what would happen if the open source community built a viable alternative to the cloud IaaS. Like OpenStack but not a failure :). OpenFlow has shown promise and could form the core for an open IaaS. Network virtualization is the hardest part.

speedplane 9y ago
> I wonder what would happen if the open source community built a viable alternative to the cloud IaaS. ... Network virtualization is the hardest part. I would think that the hardware itself is the hardest part. Companies move to the cloud because it reduces their internal OPs team, and you can scale up and down hardware extremely easily.
- slackingoff2017 9y ago
  I respectfully disagree. Every company I've been part of moving to the cloud already had plenty of hardware. It was ease of provisioning VM's, backups, deployment, and networking that really convinced them. VMWare comes close to offering the same thing on premesis but Oracle is too obsessed with wringing money from it to let it reach it's full potential.

speedplane 9y ago

> GCE and AWS provide hugely useful foundational IaaS, but they're incentivized to move beyond that layer and provide more custom solutions that ... lock you into their services. To Google's credit, they are actually moving to a more open cloud environment. They started with Google App Engine, which definitely had lock-in with it's own custom API. But now they are pushing container services and kubernetes, which are really easy to move to other clouds or run on your own servers.