8 ms·

I see on Mary's places "About us" page: "Empowering homeless women, children, and families to reclaim their lives by providing shelter, nourishment , resources,

I see on Mary's places "About us" page: "Empowering homeless women, children, and families to reclaim their lives by providing shelter, nourishment , resources, healing and hope in a safe community" While their work appears extremely positive and (of course) every charity is not required to solve every problem, I can't help but wondering about the many many single homeless men or homeless men disconnected from the families. The best data source on homelessness, the Annual Homeless Assessment Report to Congress indicates that the majority of the homeless are single males. Up to about 10% of the homeless are veterans (a group that is vastly male) and many of them have mental illnesses like PTSD. Are these people accepted at Mary's place? Is there a "Ryan's place" shelter? Does / would Amazon sponsor it?

jonnybgood 9y ago
You could've went a little deeper. They accept both men and women who have children. > Who does Mary’s Place currently serve? > Homeless women and men with their children from the greater King County area. The women and families we serve range from young adults to seniors and represent diverse backgrounds in race, ethnicity, class, sexual orientation, education, and life experience. Many struggle with disabilities and mental health issues. Approximately 30-40% of our guests are immigrants or refugees, the majority of those from East Africa. http://www.marysplaceseattle.org/about/common-questions/ http://www.marysplaceseattle.org/about/common-questions/
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- lazyasciiart 9y ago
  They specifically complained about single men or men disconnected from their families not being served, so they probably did read that bit.
savanaly 9y ago
One thing to consider (and I swear I'm not (a) claiming this is necessarily in reality the case or (b) implying that if it were we shouldn't have a "Ryan's Place") is that there is homelessness due to different causes, some of them more amenable to help than others. If someone's homeless because they were dependent on a partner who was abusive and so they left that environment and are basically a functioning member of society who nonetheless isn't on their feet, it's a whole nother story (though arguably not more tragic) than someone who's a drug addict and therefore isn't on their feet. For one of these two, a roof over their head and hot meals a couple times a day for a period of months is going to be extremely beneficial including in the long run, since they'll reliably be able to support themself thanks to the homeless shelter's infrastructure. For the other hypothetical case, it's still the right and humane thing to do for them, but the "bang for your buck" is lower to put it in crass terms. If it just works out that women outnumber men in the former group, and the gender discrimination does a huge amount of work in selecting for the most efficient candidates to keep in the shelter, I'm in favor of the discrimination.
- lemonsqueeze 9y ago
  Let the Matriarchy decide who is deserving of a hot cooked meal and who is "homeless enough". I puked a little, reading Amazon's announcement.
- nsnick 9y ago
  Why do you assume that homeless women are homeless because of abuse and not drug addiction, while homeless men are homeless because of drugs or PTSD? These assumptions seem incredibly sexist, especially in light of the fact that the current opioid crisis is affecting women disproportionately. http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/national/2016/08/31/opiods-and-anti-anxiety-medication-are-killing-white-american-women/?utm_term=.f084d98f03c6 http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/national/2016/08/31/opiods-...
  - chad_oliver 9y ago
    He explicitly doesn't assume that: > I swear I'm not (a) claiming this is necessarily in reality the case
    - colordrops 9y ago
      What's the point of the comment then?
    - danjayh 9y ago
      and yet he goes on to say exactly that. Hey, I'm not claiming this is actually reality, but did you know that women aren't as good at their jobs as men, and that's why they get paid less?^^ Yeah, I didn't think that putting a little disclaimer at the top was really good enough. ^^ Making a point about doublespeak. I think this statement is total BS.
      - eecc 9y ago
        You're working yourself up the wrong tree... take it easy, it's not that anyone that doesn't exactly follow your very same mental model is a monster. Please
slackingoff2017 9y ago
Society doesn't look at homeless men the same way. There's far more shelters for women and children, a big reason why most of the visible homeless are male.
- astrodust 9y ago
  Every shelter is for men by default. Women-only shelters are the exception and are far fewer in numbers. Shelters can be ugly, violent places, especially if there's a cold-weather snap and they have to open their doors to those with severe behavioural issues. The big reason why most of the homeless are male is because as rough an existence as that is, they can survive out there. Women simply do not last as long. They're pressured into sex work, they're dragged into abusive relationships, or they die. Women are also more likely to be homeless with kids, a nightmare scenario. They have significantly more motivation to get off the street by any means necessary if they're in that situation. By comparison a homeless old male can just stumble along at rock bottom for decades. Survivorship bias. Be careful how you observe things.
  - jamesrcole 9y ago
    > Every shelter is for men by default. Women-only shelters are the exception and are far fewer in numbers You're presenting that as comparing the situation for men and women, but it's not doing that. You're comparing shelters that let in men (i.e. including both men-only and mixed shelters) vs shelters that only let in women. You could just as equivalently switched the genders in the quote and it's be just as much true "Every shelter is for women by default. Men-only shelters are the exception and are far fewer in numbers" EDIT: to all the people downvoting this, care to say what you think the problem is with what I've said?
    - astrodust 9y ago
      > You could just as equivalently switched the genders in the quote and it's be just as much true... Except that's not true. In most cities there's a handful of women-only shelters, even fewer for women with children, and yet there's a multitude of other options not gender-specific. Here there's maybe six women-specific shelters, yet there's dozens of Salvation Army locations alone. On top of that there's other organizations that offer shelter services. They do their best to cater to everyone that abides by the rules, but there's an inherent risk in those places. It's not that women are weak any more than men are drug addicts, but shelters don't represent society as a whole. They're heavily skewed towards certain portions of the population, and that portion tends to have problems with mental illness, substance abuse, and a multitude of other issues. It's not the environment you'd want to be in under any circumstances, especially not as a woman.
cooper12 9y ago
Why is it that anytime a women's cause comes up, someone always has to chime in with "but what about men"? Organizations are formed by people with a common vision. You can contact them or participate to try to get them to expand this vision or you can start your own. For whatever reason they decided to target their focus on women. Sidetracking from the main issue to grandstand on gender is not constructive and is no different from the #AllLivesMatter rhetoric that always manages to feign concern and completely miss the point of the movement.
- staticelf 9y ago
  Because there is rarely a need to be sexist about it. Why not accept everyone? This is my major issue with many "womens causes" because it's not womens causes as much as it is human causes. In fact, it feels like they have something against me as a man by denying men help and it makes me furious. I would never support this movement.
  - sverhagen 9y ago
    Studies have shown... that you are probably a white male. For sure I am, yet your attitude, particularly your apparent denial of genuine disadvantages experienced by women, or more generally, by none-white males, is appalling. We are not coming after you, don't be afraid. Here's some homework material that I liked: https://www.ted.com/talks/michael_kimmel_why_gender_equality_is_good_for_everyone_men_included https://www.ted.com/talks/michael_kimmel_why_gender_equality... It's not because someone wants to help women or minorities, that they're trying to take (equal) opportunity away from you.
    - crytrubin 9y ago
      Studies have shown that you're a smug, sanctimonious asshole.
    - cabalamat 9y ago
      > particularly your apparent denial of genuine disadvantages experienced by women Yes, women do get worse outcomes than men, on average, for some measures. For example men earn more. It is also true that women get better outcomes than men, on average, for other measures. For example women live longer. (It is apposite that feminists/SJWs think the first issue is something that needs to be solved, but the second issue isn't). However, the thing we are talking about is homelessness. Men are more likely to be homeless than women. Men have, in your words, a "genuine disadvantage" in this measure. > We are not coming after you, don't be afraid. You personally might not be, but SJWs in general want a world where white men heve less rights than people who do not have these characteristics. This needs to be fought against.
impossiblegame 9y ago
Most shelters in Seattle serve single men. Most explicitly do not allow women or children such that it is difficult for single women or families of any variety. I would love to see Amazon sponsor more assistance for homelessness but I think their first project serves a population that is otherwise underserved.
- mercer 9y ago
  That's a good point. At least here in Amsterdam I know a few people who avoid shelters if they can because they are/feel unsafe. These were all men, so I can imagine it might be worse for women.
moomin 9y ago
As has already been pointed out, there are in fact plenty of charities serving the needs of men. Is there enough? Maybe not, but I suspect the same is true of women's refuges too. However, I'd like to highlight that women's refuges and most men's homeless shelters are actually dealing with very different problems. The problems faced by the average homeless shelter that principally serves men includes addiction and mental illnesses like you describe. Women's refuges don't tend to have either of those problems to the same extent, but schooling and former partners require their own set of skills. Equally, because the problems are so different, it makes sense to keep them separate (you don't want to put a six year old next to a meth addict, for instance). Could we do more for both of these groups? Heck yes. Ironically, some US cities have shown that the cheapest way of dealing with homeless men may be to... give them somewhere to live. Note: I lived in a women's refuge for a while when I was a kid.
- nsnick 9y ago
  You really need to look at the current homeless crisis in the northwest. It is all heroin and meth, but mostly heroin, and it affects both genders. There are literally tents lining the streets and needles everywhere.
soundwave106 9y ago
Homeless shelters specifically for men do exist. Here's one in my area, the Free Clinic Beacon House. It is specifically for single homeless men. https://stpetersburgfreeclinic.org/beacon-house-2/ https://stpetersburgfreeclinic.org/beacon-house-2/ If you Google around, there's also homeless programs that specifically focus on veterans, homeless programs that specifically focus on women with children, and homeless shelters specifically focusing on dual parent families with children. Along with shelters for substance abuse, shelters for domestic violence victims, and general purpose shelters. I can see the need for some separation in charities, to help charities focus more on various issues that may be more prevalent with one group vs. another.

jonnybgood 9y ago

You could've went a little deeper. They accept both men and women who have children. > Who does Mary’s Place currently serve? > Homeless women and men with their children from the greater King County area. The women and families we serve range from young adults to seniors and represent diverse backgrounds in race, ethnicity, class, sexual orientation, education, and life experience. Many struggle with disabilities and mental health issues. Approximately 30-40% of our guests are immigrants or refugees, the majority of those from East Africa. http://www.marysplaceseattle.org/about/common-questions/ http://www.marysplaceseattle.org/about/common-questions/

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
lazyasciiart 9y ago
They specifically complained about single men or men disconnected from their families not being served, so they probably did read that bit.

savanaly 9y ago

One thing to consider (and I swear I'm not (a) claiming this is necessarily in reality the case or (b) implying that if it were we shouldn't have a "Ryan's Place") is that there is homelessness due to different causes, some of them more amenable to help than others. If someone's homeless because they were dependent on a partner who was abusive and so they left that environment and are basically a functioning member of society who nonetheless isn't on their feet, it's a whole nother story (though arguably not more tragic) than someone who's a drug addict and therefore isn't on their feet. For one of these two, a roof over their head and hot meals a couple times a day for a period of months is going to be extremely beneficial including in the long run, since they'll reliably be able to support themself thanks to the homeless shelter's infrastructure. For the other hypothetical case, it's still the right and humane thing to do for them, but the "bang for your buck" is lower to put it in crass terms. If it just works out that women outnumber men in the former group, and the gender discrimination does a huge amount of work in selecting for the most efficient candidates to keep in the shelter, I'm in favor of the discrimination.

lemonsqueeze 9y ago
Let the Matriarchy decide who is deserving of a hot cooked meal and who is "homeless enough". I puked a little, reading Amazon's announcement.
nsnick 9y ago
Why do you assume that homeless women are homeless because of abuse and not drug addiction, while homeless men are homeless because of drugs or PTSD? These assumptions seem incredibly sexist, especially in light of the fact that the current opioid crisis is affecting women disproportionately. http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/national/2016/08/31/opiods-and-anti-anxiety-medication-are-killing-white-american-women/?utm_term=.f084d98f03c6 http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/national/2016/08/31/opiods-...
- chad_oliver 9y ago
  He explicitly doesn't assume that: > I swear I'm not (a) claiming this is necessarily in reality the case
  - colordrops 9y ago
    What's the point of the comment then?
  - danjayh 9y ago
    and yet he goes on to say exactly that. Hey, I'm not claiming this is actually reality, but did you know that women aren't as good at their jobs as men, and that's why they get paid less?^^ Yeah, I didn't think that putting a little disclaimer at the top was really good enough. ^^ Making a point about doublespeak. I think this statement is total BS.
    - eecc 9y ago
      You're working yourself up the wrong tree... take it easy, it's not that anyone that doesn't exactly follow your very same mental model is a monster. Please

slackingoff2017 9y ago

Society doesn't look at homeless men the same way. There's far more shelters for women and children, a big reason why most of the visible homeless are male.

astrodust 9y ago
Every shelter is for men by default. Women-only shelters are the exception and are far fewer in numbers. Shelters can be ugly, violent places, especially if there's a cold-weather snap and they have to open their doors to those with severe behavioural issues. The big reason why most of the homeless are male is because as rough an existence as that is, they can survive out there. Women simply do not last as long. They're pressured into sex work, they're dragged into abusive relationships, or they die. Women are also more likely to be homeless with kids, a nightmare scenario. They have significantly more motivation to get off the street by any means necessary if they're in that situation. By comparison a homeless old male can just stumble along at rock bottom for decades. Survivorship bias. Be careful how you observe things.
- jamesrcole 9y ago
  > Every shelter is for men by default. Women-only shelters are the exception and are far fewer in numbers You're presenting that as comparing the situation for men and women, but it's not doing that. You're comparing shelters that let in men (i.e. including both men-only and mixed shelters) vs shelters that only let in women. You could just as equivalently switched the genders in the quote and it's be just as much true "Every shelter is for women by default. Men-only shelters are the exception and are far fewer in numbers" EDIT: to all the people downvoting this, care to say what you think the problem is with what I've said?
  - astrodust 9y ago
    > You could just as equivalently switched the genders in the quote and it's be just as much true... Except that's not true. In most cities there's a handful of women-only shelters, even fewer for women with children, and yet there's a multitude of other options not gender-specific. Here there's maybe six women-specific shelters, yet there's dozens of Salvation Army locations alone. On top of that there's other organizations that offer shelter services. They do their best to cater to everyone that abides by the rules, but there's an inherent risk in those places. It's not that women are weak any more than men are drug addicts, but shelters don't represent society as a whole. They're heavily skewed towards certain portions of the population, and that portion tends to have problems with mental illness, substance abuse, and a multitude of other issues. It's not the environment you'd want to be in under any circumstances, especially not as a woman.

cooper12 9y ago

Why is it that anytime a women's cause comes up, someone always has to chime in with "but what about men"? Organizations are formed by people with a common vision. You can contact them or participate to try to get them to expand this vision or you can start your own. For whatever reason they decided to target their focus on women. Sidetracking from the main issue to grandstand on gender is not constructive and is no different from the #AllLivesMatter rhetoric that always manages to feign concern and completely miss the point of the movement.

staticelf 9y ago
Because there is rarely a need to be sexist about it. Why not accept everyone? This is my major issue with many "womens causes" because it's not womens causes as much as it is human causes. In fact, it feels like they have something against me as a man by denying men help and it makes me furious. I would never support this movement.
- sverhagen 9y ago
  Studies have shown... that you are probably a white male. For sure I am, yet your attitude, particularly your apparent denial of genuine disadvantages experienced by women, or more generally, by none-white males, is appalling. We are not coming after you, don't be afraid. Here's some homework material that I liked: https://www.ted.com/talks/michael_kimmel_why_gender_equality_is_good_for_everyone_men_included https://www.ted.com/talks/michael_kimmel_why_gender_equality... It's not because someone wants to help women or minorities, that they're trying to take (equal) opportunity away from you.
  - crytrubin 9y ago
    Studies have shown that you're a smug, sanctimonious asshole.
  - cabalamat 9y ago
    > particularly your apparent denial of genuine disadvantages experienced by women Yes, women do get worse outcomes than men, on average, for some measures. For example men earn more. It is also true that women get better outcomes than men, on average, for other measures. For example women live longer. (It is apposite that feminists/SJWs think the first issue is something that needs to be solved, but the second issue isn't). However, the thing we are talking about is homelessness. Men are more likely to be homeless than women. Men have, in your words, a "genuine disadvantage" in this measure. > We are not coming after you, don't be afraid. You personally might not be, but SJWs in general want a world where white men heve less rights than people who do not have these characteristics. This needs to be fought against.

impossiblegame 9y ago

Most shelters in Seattle serve single men. Most explicitly do not allow women or children such that it is difficult for single women or families of any variety. I would love to see Amazon sponsor more assistance for homelessness but I think their first project serves a population that is otherwise underserved.

mercer 9y ago
That's a good point. At least here in Amsterdam I know a few people who avoid shelters if they can because they are/feel unsafe. These were all men, so I can imagine it might be worse for women.

moomin 9y ago

As has already been pointed out, there are in fact plenty of charities serving the needs of men. Is there enough? Maybe not, but I suspect the same is true of women's refuges too. However, I'd like to highlight that women's refuges and most men's homeless shelters are actually dealing with very different problems. The problems faced by the average homeless shelter that principally serves men includes addiction and mental illnesses like you describe. Women's refuges don't tend to have either of those problems to the same extent, but schooling and former partners require their own set of skills. Equally, because the problems are so different, it makes sense to keep them separate (you don't want to put a six year old next to a meth addict, for instance). Could we do more for both of these groups? Heck yes. Ironically, some US cities have shown that the cheapest way of dealing with homeless men may be to... give them somewhere to live. Note: I lived in a women's refuge for a while when I was a kid.

nsnick 9y ago
You really need to look at the current homeless crisis in the northwest. It is all heroin and meth, but mostly heroin, and it affects both genders. There are literally tents lining the streets and needles everywhere.

soundwave106 9y ago

Homeless shelters specifically for men do exist. Here's one in my area, the Free Clinic Beacon House. It is specifically for single homeless men. https://stpetersburgfreeclinic.org/beacon-house-2/ https://stpetersburgfreeclinic.org/beacon-house-2/ If you Google around, there's also homeless programs that specifically focus on veterans, homeless programs that specifically focus on women with children, and homeless shelters specifically focusing on dual parent families with children. Along with shelters for substance abuse, shelters for domestic violence victims, and general purpose shelters. I can see the need for some separation in charities, to help charities focus more on various issues that may be more prevalent with one group vs. another.