4 ms·

I'm a self-taught programmer, and I got my first job in the industry in 2012. Now that I've been interviewed as a candidate and interviewed candidates for jobs

I'm a self-taught programmer, and I got my first job in the industry in 2012. Now that I've been interviewed as a candidate and interviewed candidates for jobs at my company, the thing that stands out most to me in the software industry, whether engineers are self-taught or not, is that networking and personal connections really matter. The hardest part about getting your first job as a self-taught engineer is getting companies to take you seriously. A lot of companies will just throw out applications from candidates without CS degrees, unless those candidates were referred by someone inside the company. Like most job requirements, the degree and experience are flexible if you can get past the bureaucracy, and knowing an insider helps you do that. So, I agree with the author of the article that a good portfolio is necessary, but I would rate networking just as highly.

bobbytherobot 10y ago
> A lot of companies will just throw out applications from candidates without CS degrees, unless those candidates were referred by someone inside the company To add to this remark, getting hired as a programmer is a show and dance in more than one way. For example, I stuff my resume with specific keywords for the initial recruiters, not the seasoned programmer who in the end interviews me. My advice is to study up on interview coding questions. Half of them have little to do with the actual job. Often people are picking a homework question they had from their sophomore year in college because they don't know better (or they have a bias towards people like them). Is the interview process fair, no. It just isn't. But if you are smart, you'll play the unfair parts in your favor.
toexitthedonut 10y ago
>Whether engineers are self-taught or not, is that networking and personal connections really matter. As someone who has no good network, is there any other good way? I tend to read "X really matters" as "X is essential" in that without X you're nothing. I don't believe in essential ingredients- I believe that, as professional life is very open-ended, there is a multitude of good recipes for success in which there is no common ingredient.
- twblalock 10y ago
  Few people start out with a good network. You need to meet people. If you live in an area with a lot of software companies, there are probably going to be meetups, clubs, and that sort of thing. I got into the field by working at a startup in a nontechnical role and transitioning into the engineering department after demonstrating that I could code and helping with some minor projects. I know several other people who went that route, and I think it's viable at startups, but not at large companies.
  - toexitthedonut 10y ago
    I already have held four different jobs as a web developer and still have no good network. See my reply to "developer2" for more details.
- developer2 10y ago
  I got my first developer job the old fashioned way: sent in a résumé, went in for an interview, and was hired. I did not know anyone at the company, and was not referred in any way. I got very lucky in that this process worked on my first try. It was, and can be, that simple. The trick is to have realistic expectations. You're not looking to impress anyone with the name of the company or your salary. You're looking for someone to open an initial door for you that will lead to future opportunities. First: the company. Aim for small companies with fewer than 30 employees. Avoid larger companies, who have faceless HR departments and rigid hiring processes. You want a tiny company where interviews and hiring decisions are performed by your peers - senior developers and team leads, rather than managers. You want the person who holds the hiring power to have a chance to put themselves in your shoes, and see your future potential rather than what you can bring to the company. You're hoping they take a risk with you, and to a certain extent you're trying to provoke a pity hire. Second: the interview. When asked technical questions, answer to the best of your ability. Be willing to admit you don't know, instead of spewing nonsense. Hint: "Hrm, I don't know that one... yet." Know beforehand what programming language the company uses, and have a basic working knowledge. If asked to do a coding test, you must be able to give it your best shot. I didn't finish the test I was given, but the logic I had put down was sensible and headed in the right direction. It was enough to give the impression I had a technical mind and, more importantly, that I was able to begin working on a task. Third: salary. Prepare to be disappointed. My first job's salary was ~40% the market rate of a junior developer. You could say the company was "taking advantage of me", but they were a) taking a risk hiring someone without experience, b) paying me three times what I made working as a Walmart cashier, c) giving me my first step into my preferred industry, and d) giving me experience to put on my résumé. Fourth: once hired, stay with the company for a minimum of two years. Do everything in your power not to duck out earlier. You really need your résumé, with its single entry as a developer, to hold some weight. Once you have this, the number of doors that open up will give you a choice of where to head next. You may never have a realistic shot at a company like Google, but you will be paid market rate. tldr; Start with small companies, where you will be interviewed and hired by senior developers and team leads instead of managers and an HR department. Be willing to start at low salary. Your first company is about gaining experience for your craft and your résumé, not to make money.

bobbytherobot 10y ago

> A lot of companies will just throw out applications from candidates without CS degrees, unless those candidates were referred by someone inside the company To add to this remark, getting hired as a programmer is a show and dance in more than one way. For example, I stuff my resume with specific keywords for the initial recruiters, not the seasoned programmer who in the end interviews me. My advice is to study up on interview coding questions. Half of them have little to do with the actual job. Often people are picking a homework question they had from their sophomore year in college because they don't know better (or they have a bias towards people like them). Is the interview process fair, no. It just isn't. But if you are smart, you'll play the unfair parts in your favor.

toexitthedonut 10y ago

>Whether engineers are self-taught or not, is that networking and personal connections really matter. As someone who has no good network, is there any other good way? I tend to read "X really matters" as "X is essential" in that without X you're nothing. I don't believe in essential ingredients- I believe that, as professional life is very open-ended, there is a multitude of good recipes for success in which there is no common ingredient.

twblalock 10y ago
Few people start out with a good network. You need to meet people. If you live in an area with a lot of software companies, there are probably going to be meetups, clubs, and that sort of thing. I got into the field by working at a startup in a nontechnical role and transitioning into the engineering department after demonstrating that I could code and helping with some minor projects. I know several other people who went that route, and I think it's viable at startups, but not at large companies.
- toexitthedonut 10y ago
  I already have held four different jobs as a web developer and still have no good network. See my reply to "developer2" for more details.
developer2 10y ago
I got my first developer job the old fashioned way: sent in a résumé, went in for an interview, and was hired. I did not know anyone at the company, and was not referred in any way. I got very lucky in that this process worked on my first try. It was, and can be, that simple. The trick is to have realistic expectations. You're not looking to impress anyone with the name of the company or your salary. You're looking for someone to open an initial door for you that will lead to future opportunities. First: the company. Aim for small companies with fewer than 30 employees. Avoid larger companies, who have faceless HR departments and rigid hiring processes. You want a tiny company where interviews and hiring decisions are performed by your peers - senior developers and team leads, rather than managers. You want the person who holds the hiring power to have a chance to put themselves in your shoes, and see your future potential rather than what you can bring to the company. You're hoping they take a risk with you, and to a certain extent you're trying to provoke a pity hire. Second: the interview. When asked technical questions, answer to the best of your ability. Be willing to admit you don't know, instead of spewing nonsense. Hint: "Hrm, I don't know that one... yet." Know beforehand what programming language the company uses, and have a basic working knowledge. If asked to do a coding test, you must be able to give it your best shot. I didn't finish the test I was given, but the logic I had put down was sensible and headed in the right direction. It was enough to give the impression I had a technical mind and, more importantly, that I was able to begin working on a task. Third: salary. Prepare to be disappointed. My first job's salary was ~40% the market rate of a junior developer. You could say the company was "taking advantage of me", but they were a) taking a risk hiring someone without experience, b) paying me three times what I made working as a Walmart cashier, c) giving me my first step into my preferred industry, and d) giving me experience to put on my résumé. Fourth: once hired, stay with the company for a minimum of two years. Do everything in your power not to duck out earlier. You really need your résumé, with its single entry as a developer, to hold some weight. Once you have this, the number of doors that open up will give you a choice of where to head next. You may never have a realistic shot at a company like Google, but you will be paid market rate. tldr; Start with small companies, where you will be interviewed and hired by senior developers and team leads instead of managers and an HR department. Be willing to start at low salary. Your first company is about gaining experience for your craft and your résumé, not to make money.