5 ms·

Five minutes after winning the presidential election of 1904, Teddy Roosevelt vowed not to seek re-election in 1908. Six minutes after, he regretted what he ha

by edw519 16y ago

Five minutes after winning the presidential election of 1904, Teddy Roosevelt vowed not to seek re-election in 1908. Six minutes after, he regretted what he had just said. He tried to return in 1912, but failed and regretted his hasty decision the rest of his life. Why do I mention this? Because whenever I feel like I'm in a difficult situation (not all that much different from yours), I promise myself not to pull a Teddy Roosevelt and do something hasty that I'll regret forever. Neither should you. FWIW, time is not slipping away. In spite of what you may think here at hn, 30 is not old. My suggestion: keep your job and stay on your path to a green card, but find a way to do it and your startup at the same time. You have to get creative. Put in a few hours on your startup before work, not after. Get rid of you TV set. Block out huge blocks of time on weekends. Use your PTO for your startup. Work from home a few days a week and squeeze in extra startup work with the time/energy you save. You get the idea. You're already creative enough to build a startup. Now use that creativity to free up more time and energy to work on it. Forget about the competition and time slipping away; just do the best you can. And don't pull a Teddy Roosevelt.

imasr 16y ago
Fair advice. I was in a similar situation and blew the whole thing off. I could not regret it more. Be patient an you'll get your reward.
adityakothadiya 16y ago
Agree with edw519 on many points, but those suggestions are not a long-term solution. Take his advice as "hope" medicine for your current situation. But I wouldn't say keep waiting for green card and keep running your startup in the part-time. I'm in the same boat. And I completely understand how frustrating it is. So take this thread's advice to come out of frustration, but don't stop to find a real solution. I'm also working to find a solution for this problem. Talked to few people who have done this before, reading some info on http://lawbench.com http://lawbench.com regarding similar cases, talked to lawyers and will be talking more lawyers for specific personal situation. Everyone's situation is different so general advice won't apply in such cases. At the end, don't give up. Find a solution. Don't settle down for the part-time. I'm not going to settle for part-time either. Worst case, I'll have to take extreme steps once I know that I knew all possible solutions, and tried all of them, but there is just a solution that fits my situation. At that stage, Teddy Roosevelt's situation won't look similar to ours - and it will make sense to quit Green Card trap and take a leap.
m0th87 16y ago
edw, your practicality and wisdom always blows me away. You should write a book for engineers. I'm not sure what would go in it, but it would nevertheless be interesting.
Tichy 16y ago
But what is the Teddy Roosevelt decision, staying in the job or quitting? Saying "I have to be in America"? I am 37 now and I think time IS slipping away. (Note: I am not the OP)
- troutwine 16y ago
  Statistically speaking, you've lived about half of your life. A little under, depending on country. I suppose you are a glass half empty sort of fellow? Really though, it's not so bad. We all face utter oblivion; the question is "When?" and not "If?" Live peacefully and with confidence. Be content that you do not live in Swaziland. Thirty-seven years is a long time to yet exist.
  - Tichy 16y ago
    The thing is, I haven't done anything all that great yet (by my own standards). If I just keep going on as I did before (ie staying in boring jobs), how am I to expect that in my second half, something exciting will magically happen? Some opportunities are already gone forever, ie nobody will cast me as a singer in a boy group anymore (just saying). I keep hoping that one day there will be a market for rock stars who only started playing their instruments in their 60ies... I don't think the glass is half empty. Despite all the problems, I think the world is an amazing place with countless interesting things to do. I am just not in favor of the "play it safe and keep your day job" advice, because time definitely is finite (though I am rooting for the singularity guys). I am not in a position to really advise against it, though - what if somebody quits their job and ends up broke and miserable? Everybody has to decide for themselves, I guess. I think "fear is the greatest enemy" is true, though - what exactly is the day job buying you? Also think in opportunity costs - what could you do in the time you weren't working for the man?
    - revorad 16y ago
      Usually I would agree about quitting the job and just going for it. Like you said, time is finite. But, one does have to consider the details of one's situation. what exactly is the day job buying you? In the OP's case, US citizenship, which means a lifetime of opportunity to build businesses in a free country which he/she likes living in. Two years of steady income, while still working on your business on the side, sounds like a good bargain. Of course, your situation must be different, so you would have to decide accordingly.
all_elements 16y ago
Agreed. You have a 30-35 year career: so put this in that perspective. 2 years is not that much of a deal in the longer run. Are you not having fun with your startup? If you are having fun learning, coding, and meeting other entrepreneurs then your outlook will be more positive. IMO, perspective is everything: focus on the positives. You are 30 and you are half way through to achieving what most people cannot achieve in a lifetime. The times when I feel most sad/depressed is when I am working long hours for 7 days a week. So when I take a break and come back after having some fun, suddenly everything looks positive and encouraging:-)
cookiecaper 16y ago
Most of this advice is fine, but the working from home and using spare time on your project is dubious. I'm sure the OP isn't advocating working on your own project on company time, but you need to avoid even the appearance that you may be doing so. Just be very careful with it; the last thing you want to worry about it is IP disputes or lawsuits.
- elcron 16y ago
  - Work from home a few days a week and squeeze in extra startup work with the time/energy you save. I think he's referring to time saved by not having to commute, not using company time for the startup. If that's true then it seems like good advice.
  - cookiecaper 16y ago
    Right, as I wrote, I don't think that the author's intent was to use company time on the startup. All I'm saying is that the OP should be careful. If he has a long commute, that might work -- but if he has a short commute, then the line may blur a bit. It's almost good to have a solid chunk of time between working on work and working on a startup -- the possibility of confusion about the IP and about who's paying for what becomes increasingly remote.
patio11 16y ago
What Ed said. I spent almost four years part-timing my startup while working day jobs. (At which ten hours a day would have felt like a nice refreshing breeze on a warm summer day, but that is neither here nor there.) I also feel your pain on immigration issues. That was at least part of the reason why I had to do things the long way. You can make progress while employed. Be disciplined about it, be smart in how you work, and above all don't give up. Most of my good tips are here: http://www.kalzumeus.com/2010/03/20/running-a-software-business-on-5-hours-a-week/ http://www.kalzumeus.com/2010/03/20/running-a-software-busin... At the end of the process you'll have a company (successful for some definition of successful), a green card, and an excellent base from which to plot your takeover of the world. You might be surprised to know that at 28 or 30 or 32 having a successful company still makes you a huge anomaly among everyone you know. The discipline you learned while working will help you hugely, too, if you can maintain it.
- whatnext 16y ago
  I've been a reader of your blog for some time now and I am amazed at how you pull it off. Between writing code, thinking about the big picture, product features, promoting it, marketing, I'm overwhelmed most of the time. I have been looking for help now but still learning my way through hiring. The 20-somethings media-fueled success stories that we hear all around us add undue pressure. In a subtle way, they make you feel like a loser if you haven't made it by 30, which is BS. I make a conscious effort to not be affected by the hype. All I'd like is to give it my best effort, learn a lot in the process, and hopefully create a nice little place for myself.
  - gridspy 16y ago
    Those success stories are notable because they are the exception. There are literally hundreds of thousands of successful businesses out there, big and small. One of my favorite companies (Hubbards, makes breakfast foods) was founded by Dick Hubbard using his retirement cheque. It is never too late to start.

by edw519 16y ago

imasr 16y ago

Fair advice. I was in a similar situation and blew the whole thing off. I could not regret it more. Be patient an you'll get your reward.

adityakothadiya 16y ago

Agree with edw519 on many points, but those suggestions are not a long-term solution. Take his advice as "hope" medicine for your current situation. But I wouldn't say keep waiting for green card and keep running your startup in the part-time. I'm in the same boat. And I completely understand how frustrating it is. So take this thread's advice to come out of frustration, but don't stop to find a real solution. I'm also working to find a solution for this problem. Talked to few people who have done this before, reading some info on http://lawbench.com http://lawbench.com regarding similar cases, talked to lawyers and will be talking more lawyers for specific personal situation. Everyone's situation is different so general advice won't apply in such cases. At the end, don't give up. Find a solution. Don't settle down for the part-time. I'm not going to settle for part-time either. Worst case, I'll have to take extreme steps once I know that I knew all possible solutions, and tried all of them, but there is just a solution that fits my situation. At that stage, Teddy Roosevelt's situation won't look similar to ours - and it will make sense to quit Green Card trap and take a leap.

m0th87 16y ago

edw, your practicality and wisdom always blows me away. You should write a book for engineers. I'm not sure what would go in it, but it would nevertheless be interesting.

Tichy 16y ago

But what is the Teddy Roosevelt decision, staying in the job or quitting? Saying "I have to be in America"? I am 37 now and I think time IS slipping away. (Note: I am not the OP)

troutwine 16y ago
Statistically speaking, you've lived about half of your life. A little under, depending on country. I suppose you are a glass half empty sort of fellow? Really though, it's not so bad. We all face utter oblivion; the question is "When?" and not "If?" Live peacefully and with confidence. Be content that you do not live in Swaziland. Thirty-seven years is a long time to yet exist.
- Tichy 16y ago
  The thing is, I haven't done anything all that great yet (by my own standards). If I just keep going on as I did before (ie staying in boring jobs), how am I to expect that in my second half, something exciting will magically happen? Some opportunities are already gone forever, ie nobody will cast me as a singer in a boy group anymore (just saying). I keep hoping that one day there will be a market for rock stars who only started playing their instruments in their 60ies... I don't think the glass is half empty. Despite all the problems, I think the world is an amazing place with countless interesting things to do. I am just not in favor of the "play it safe and keep your day job" advice, because time definitely is finite (though I am rooting for the singularity guys). I am not in a position to really advise against it, though - what if somebody quits their job and ends up broke and miserable? Everybody has to decide for themselves, I guess. I think "fear is the greatest enemy" is true, though - what exactly is the day job buying you? Also think in opportunity costs - what could you do in the time you weren't working for the man?
  - revorad 16y ago
    Usually I would agree about quitting the job and just going for it. Like you said, time is finite. But, one does have to consider the details of one's situation. what exactly is the day job buying you? In the OP's case, US citizenship, which means a lifetime of opportunity to build businesses in a free country which he/she likes living in. Two years of steady income, while still working on your business on the side, sounds like a good bargain. Of course, your situation must be different, so you would have to decide accordingly.

all_elements 16y ago

Agreed. You have a 30-35 year career: so put this in that perspective. 2 years is not that much of a deal in the longer run. Are you not having fun with your startup? If you are having fun learning, coding, and meeting other entrepreneurs then your outlook will be more positive. IMO, perspective is everything: focus on the positives. You are 30 and you are half way through to achieving what most people cannot achieve in a lifetime. The times when I feel most sad/depressed is when I am working long hours for 7 days a week. So when I take a break and come back after having some fun, suddenly everything looks positive and encouraging:-)

cookiecaper 16y ago

Most of this advice is fine, but the working from home and using spare time on your project is dubious. I'm sure the OP isn't advocating working on your own project on company time, but you need to avoid even the appearance that you may be doing so. Just be very careful with it; the last thing you want to worry about it is IP disputes or lawsuits.

elcron 16y ago
- Work from home a few days a week and squeeze in extra startup work with the time/energy you save. I think he's referring to time saved by not having to commute, not using company time for the startup. If that's true then it seems like good advice.
- cookiecaper 16y ago
  Right, as I wrote, I don't think that the author's intent was to use company time on the startup. All I'm saying is that the OP should be careful. If he has a long commute, that might work -- but if he has a short commute, then the line may blur a bit. It's almost good to have a solid chunk of time between working on work and working on a startup -- the possibility of confusion about the IP and about who's paying for what becomes increasingly remote.

patio11 16y ago

What Ed said. I spent almost four years part-timing my startup while working day jobs. (At which ten hours a day would have felt like a nice refreshing breeze on a warm summer day, but that is neither here nor there.) I also feel your pain on immigration issues. That was at least part of the reason why I had to do things the long way. You can make progress while employed. Be disciplined about it, be smart in how you work, and above all don't give up. Most of my good tips are here: http://www.kalzumeus.com/2010/03/20/running-a-software-business-on-5-hours-a-week/ http://www.kalzumeus.com/2010/03/20/running-a-software-busin... At the end of the process you'll have a company (successful for some definition of successful), a green card, and an excellent base from which to plot your takeover of the world. You might be surprised to know that at 28 or 30 or 32 having a successful company still makes you a huge anomaly among everyone you know. The discipline you learned while working will help you hugely, too, if you can maintain it.

whatnext 16y ago
I've been a reader of your blog for some time now and I am amazed at how you pull it off. Between writing code, thinking about the big picture, product features, promoting it, marketing, I'm overwhelmed most of the time. I have been looking for help now but still learning my way through hiring. The 20-somethings media-fueled success stories that we hear all around us add undue pressure. In a subtle way, they make you feel like a loser if you haven't made it by 30, which is BS. I make a conscious effort to not be affected by the hype. All I'd like is to give it my best effort, learn a lot in the process, and hopefully create a nice little place for myself.
- gridspy 16y ago
  Those success stories are notable because they are the exception. There are literally hundreds of thousands of successful businesses out there, big and small. One of my favorite companies (Hubbards, makes breakfast foods) was founded by Dick Hubbard using his retirement cheque. It is never too late to start.