5 ms·

Were people not updating to more modern OSes because they didn't want new features or because they didn't want to spend the money on new licenses and testing so

Were people not updating to more modern OSes because they didn't want new features or because they didn't want to spend the money on new licenses and testing software compatibility? And how sure are we that they didn't install security updates out of sheer laziness or hubris? People who run systems that store sensitive information and systems should take computer seriously more serious than the people on Hacker News. I would never allow my my smartphone, let alone computers and servers to run unpatched software. Why is this acceptable for people who have critical systems and data?

tgragnato 9y ago
Critical systems should not have installed an operating system that collects metadata on virtually anything the user does: telemetry. https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/04/microsoft-opens-up-on-windows-telemetry-tells-us-most-of-what-data-it-collects/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/04/micro... (Privacy) Especially if the company that develops the os in question shows a track like this one: https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=microsoft+windows https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=microsoft+w.... (Security) I also wonder how long it will take before the shiny new anti-piracy instruments will be abused by a member of the intelligence community, a low-level politician or perhaps embedded into desktop OSes. http://pimg-fpiw.uspto.gov/fdd/50/148/096/0.pdf http://pimg-fpiw.uspto.gov/fdd/50/148/096/0.pdf (You are not the owner of your files) It's always easy to accuse the user rather than who exploited the vulnerability in the first place or who does not backport security patches when users obviously do not like the new versions of a software. - https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0 https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share... - https://www.extremetech.com/computing/227693-windows-drops-below-90-market-share-for-the-first-time-in-years-windows-7-falls-below-50 https://www.extremetech.com/computing/227693-windows-drops-b... Frankly speaking, Microsoft has gone too far into abuse, lock-ins and presumptions. As a personal comment, I have an old Windows 7 laptop I use with some win32 software, I do not have the slightest intention of upgrading to Windows 10 (not for laziness or hubris, but because IMO the product is not worth the price). And if it was a critical system, than Microsoft Windows would not really be considered among the options.
- mst 9y ago
  > Critical systems should not have installed an operating system that collects metadata on virtually anything the user does Thing is, the more of that data they have, the more likely they are to prioritise testing those use cases. So it's a trade-off - do you want telemetry, or do you want a higher risk of bugs - you have to pick one.
  - tgragnato 9y ago
    Just to mention two alternative ways to get data: bug reports, product feedbacks. You can ask for logs, system diagnostics, backtraces... One may have less data, but probably of a superior quality. Outsmarting sysadmins, developers and users is not the first need. If one is not gathering enough data because many are not able to find the tools and/or the website for the reports, that's a usability issue and that is what should be solved. I seriously think telemetry is the wrong solution for the matter.
- pwthornton 9y ago
  I'm not advocating for using Windows for critical systems that store tons of user data, but I am advocating that if you do use it, you should use versions that are still supported and make sure you patch it ASAP. But should Microsoft be expected to back port patches to old OSes in perpetuity?
  - tgragnato 9y ago
    Oh that's fair, if a product is unsupported, use it air-gapped or at least in a reasonably controlled environment... Again, pretending and forcing upgrades is not the solution. The practise perpetrated by Microsoft has been described again and again as an "aggressive effort to push upgrades". https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/mar/15/windows-10-automatically-installs-without-permission-complain-users https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/mar/15/windows-1... The issue is not the upgrade per se, but the "imperfection" of the upgrade process (wanted euphemism) and the fact that many consider W10 a worse os if compared to W7. Otherwise nobody would complain.
codedokode 9y ago
New versions of Windows also work slower (especially on old hardware), require more disk storage, contain spyware (telemetry) and advertisement that user cannot disable. And contain no new useful features. No wonder people don't want to upgrade. I think Microsoft should have stopped developing new OS with Windows 7 and release only security and bug fixes.
JdeBP 9y ago
I suggest some reading: * http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/microsoft/7898033/Microsoft-loses-NHS-contract.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/microsoft/7898033/Micr... * https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/213823/dh_117794.pdf#page=47 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachm... * http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24130684 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24130684 * https://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/sep/18/nhs-records-system-10bn https://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/sep/18/nhs-records-... * https://blog.venngroup.com/august-1st-marked-the-launch-of-microsofts-latest-operating-system-windows-10/ https://blog.venngroup.com/august-1st-marked-the-launch-of-m... * https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/nhs-foundation-trusts-letter-on-support-for-windows-xp-and-office-2003 https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/nhs-foundation-tr... * https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2010/jan/22/internet-explorer-nhs-vulnerability https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2010/jan/22/internet-... * http://www.cio.co.uk/it-applications/uks-largest-nhs-trust-ditches-laptops-in-favour-of-windows-go-3436704/ http://www.cio.co.uk/it-applications/uks-largest-nhs-trust-d... Yes, this is a large and complex subject.

tgragnato 9y ago

Critical systems should not have installed an operating system that collects metadata on virtually anything the user does: telemetry. https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/04/microsoft-opens-up-on-windows-telemetry-tells-us-most-of-what-data-it-collects/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/04/micro... (Privacy) Especially if the company that develops the os in question shows a track like this one: https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=microsoft+windows https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=microsoft+w.... (Security) I also wonder how long it will take before the shiny new anti-piracy instruments will be abused by a member of the intelligence community, a low-level politician or perhaps embedded into desktop OSes. http://pimg-fpiw.uspto.gov/fdd/50/148/096/0.pdf http://pimg-fpiw.uspto.gov/fdd/50/148/096/0.pdf (You are not the owner of your files) It's always easy to accuse the user rather than who exploited the vulnerability in the first place or who does not backport security patches when users obviously do not like the new versions of a software. - https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0 https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share... - https://www.extremetech.com/computing/227693-windows-drops-below-90-market-share-for-the-first-time-in-years-windows-7-falls-below-50 https://www.extremetech.com/computing/227693-windows-drops-b... Frankly speaking, Microsoft has gone too far into abuse, lock-ins and presumptions. As a personal comment, I have an old Windows 7 laptop I use with some win32 software, I do not have the slightest intention of upgrading to Windows 10 (not for laziness or hubris, but because IMO the product is not worth the price). And if it was a critical system, than Microsoft Windows would not really be considered among the options.

mst 9y ago
> Critical systems should not have installed an operating system that collects metadata on virtually anything the user does Thing is, the more of that data they have, the more likely they are to prioritise testing those use cases. So it's a trade-off - do you want telemetry, or do you want a higher risk of bugs - you have to pick one.
- tgragnato 9y ago
  Just to mention two alternative ways to get data: bug reports, product feedbacks. You can ask for logs, system diagnostics, backtraces... One may have less data, but probably of a superior quality. Outsmarting sysadmins, developers and users is not the first need. If one is not gathering enough data because many are not able to find the tools and/or the website for the reports, that's a usability issue and that is what should be solved. I seriously think telemetry is the wrong solution for the matter.
pwthornton 9y ago
I'm not advocating for using Windows for critical systems that store tons of user data, but I am advocating that if you do use it, you should use versions that are still supported and make sure you patch it ASAP. But should Microsoft be expected to back port patches to old OSes in perpetuity?
- tgragnato 9y ago
  Oh that's fair, if a product is unsupported, use it air-gapped or at least in a reasonably controlled environment... Again, pretending and forcing upgrades is not the solution. The practise perpetrated by Microsoft has been described again and again as an "aggressive effort to push upgrades". https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/mar/15/windows-10-automatically-installs-without-permission-complain-users https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/mar/15/windows-1... The issue is not the upgrade per se, but the "imperfection" of the upgrade process (wanted euphemism) and the fact that many consider W10 a worse os if compared to W7. Otherwise nobody would complain.

codedokode 9y ago

New versions of Windows also work slower (especially on old hardware), require more disk storage, contain spyware (telemetry) and advertisement that user cannot disable. And contain no new useful features. No wonder people don't want to upgrade. I think Microsoft should have stopped developing new OS with Windows 7 and release only security and bug fixes.

JdeBP 9y ago

I suggest some reading: * http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/microsoft/7898033/Microsoft-loses-NHS-contract.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/microsoft/7898033/Micr... * https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/213823/dh_117794.pdf#page=47 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachm... * http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24130684 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24130684 * https://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/sep/18/nhs-records-system-10bn https://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/sep/18/nhs-records-... * https://blog.venngroup.com/august-1st-marked-the-launch-of-microsofts-latest-operating-system-windows-10/ https://blog.venngroup.com/august-1st-marked-the-launch-of-m... * https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/nhs-foundation-trusts-letter-on-support-for-windows-xp-and-office-2003 https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/nhs-foundation-tr... * https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2010/jan/22/internet-explorer-nhs-vulnerability https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2010/jan/22/internet-... * http://www.cio.co.uk/it-applications/uks-largest-nhs-trust-ditches-laptops-in-favour-of-windows-go-3436704/ http://www.cio.co.uk/it-applications/uks-largest-nhs-trust-d... Yes, this is a large and complex subject.