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No. The problem is not a lack of access to a general-purpose computer. The problem is the lack of control over the computers you're forced to use in order to m

by gue5t 9y ago

No. The problem is not a lack of access to a general-purpose computer. The problem is the lack of control over the computers you're forced to use in order to manipulate their attached I/O devices such as lights, refrigerators, screens, speakers, insulin pumps, steering and brakes, Internet connections, etc.

closeparen 9y ago
The microcontrollers that used to run these things were never particularly free, were they? Is it worse just because the computers running them are now more powerful?
- ryukafalz 9y ago
  They do a lot more now. They're often networked and remotely upgradeable. Sure, you couldn't see the code in the microcontrollers in your old TV - the ones listening for IR signals and driving the LCD. But modern TVs do all of that and more; they have internet connections, some have cameras and microphones, etc. And even if you couldn't see the code in your old pacemaker (which I would say was still a problem), your new one probably has wireless administration and firmware updates. Those likely have remotely exploitable security vulnerabilities[0], and even if you have one inside your body, you aren't allowed to look at the code yourself. [0] https://www.engadget.com/2017/04/21/pacemaker-security-is-terrifying/ https://www.engadget.com/2017/04/21/pacemaker-security-is-te...
- swiley 9y ago
  It used to not matter so much, often it was possible to replace them with SOP PLC like devices without much work so it made sense to think of them like hardware.
- dTal 9y ago
  The relevant issue is "can the product's behaviour be changed after purchase - and if so, by whom?" This was an important enough consumer rights issue even before the invention of the internet - now that it can be done secretly and remotely, it's paramount.
astrodust 9y ago
The Free Software Federation spends so much of their energy fighting against commercial operating systems and expends almost zero effort on embedded systems where catastrophic failure can equal death. Ironically one of the biggest problems with "Internet of Things" junk appliances is not that they run locked-down DRM-saddled operating systems, but that they run free ones like Linux. Linux itself isn't a problem, but that they're often bundled with tragically out of date versions of everything and there's never any thought given to how to update them. This malware incident is simply relating to a commercial operating system. Imagine when someone's hacked your lights by worming into the Linux install on the controller and demands $50 in Bitcoin to return control to you.
- Qwertious 9y ago
  Embedded systems are, in theory, much more straightforward to deal with - they don't have vendor lock-in. Yet. In contrast, the main reason that Windows has a massive userbase is its massive app support, which is a result of Windows' massive userbase.

by gue5t 9y ago

closeparen 9y ago

The microcontrollers that used to run these things were never particularly free, were they? Is it worse just because the computers running them are now more powerful?

ryukafalz 9y ago
They do a lot more now. They're often networked and remotely upgradeable. Sure, you couldn't see the code in the microcontrollers in your old TV - the ones listening for IR signals and driving the LCD. But modern TVs do all of that and more; they have internet connections, some have cameras and microphones, etc. And even if you couldn't see the code in your old pacemaker (which I would say was still a problem), your new one probably has wireless administration and firmware updates. Those likely have remotely exploitable security vulnerabilities[0], and even if you have one inside your body, you aren't allowed to look at the code yourself. [0] https://www.engadget.com/2017/04/21/pacemaker-security-is-terrifying/ https://www.engadget.com/2017/04/21/pacemaker-security-is-te...
swiley 9y ago
It used to not matter so much, often it was possible to replace them with SOP PLC like devices without much work so it made sense to think of them like hardware.
dTal 9y ago
The relevant issue is "can the product's behaviour be changed after purchase - and if so, by whom?" This was an important enough consumer rights issue even before the invention of the internet - now that it can be done secretly and remotely, it's paramount.

astrodust 9y ago

The Free Software Federation spends so much of their energy fighting against commercial operating systems and expends almost zero effort on embedded systems where catastrophic failure can equal death. Ironically one of the biggest problems with "Internet of Things" junk appliances is not that they run locked-down DRM-saddled operating systems, but that they run free ones like Linux. Linux itself isn't a problem, but that they're often bundled with tragically out of date versions of everything and there's never any thought given to how to update them. This malware incident is simply relating to a commercial operating system. Imagine when someone's hacked your lights by worming into the Linux install on the controller and demands $50 in Bitcoin to return control to you.

Qwertious 9y ago
Embedded systems are, in theory, much more straightforward to deal with - they don't have vendor lock-in. Yet. In contrast, the main reason that Windows has a massive userbase is its massive app support, which is a result of Windows' massive userbase.