4 ms·

When you are married AND have kids, one thing that can happen is that the parent who is most concerned about the welfare of the kids has no choice but to simply

by Mz 9y ago

When you are married AND have kids, one thing that can happen is that the parent who is most concerned about the welfare of the kids has no choice but to simply buck up and do what is necessary for their sake. Quibbling with another grown adult about "fairness" and "equality" can be a great way to see the kids get shortchanged. So, once there are children involved, it is not unusual for the wife to just suck it up and do what the kids need at personal cost to her. It often makes little sense to try to hold hubby's feet to the fire and insist on him doing his fair share at home or whatever. This is not man-bashing. I am a woman and former homemaker. I do a lot of even-handed writing that tries to consider both sides of the picture. But this is a reality in many marriages. I do not self-identify as a "feminist" in part because, to me, "feminism" is about women wanting careers and to hell with any other considerations. This ongoing argument about equality of the sexes seems to mostly leave out the critical detail of the welfare of the children. Unless and until we start talking about what works for the family as a whole, including kids, and society as a whole, including families with legal minors, this entire argument about men vs. women and so-called equality will continue to be sick and twisted and will tend to continue to crap on any parent that actually cares deeply about the welfare of their kids, regardless of gender.

lactau 9y ago
>to me, "feminism" is about women wanting careers Second-wave feminism lasted from 1960s to 1980s.
- Mz 9y ago
  I don't know what relevance that has to anything I said. Aside from the cherry picking aspect of how you (mis)quoted me, I was a homemaker for a lot of years. I am 51 years old. I deal routinely with women who look down upon me because they chose to put their careers first. In some cases, they chose to not have children at all. In their eyes, I absolutely am not their equal and unequivocally not deserving of any real respect. Dealing with such women is usually a worse experience for me than dealing with most men. Such women are typically pretty toxic.
  - watwut 9y ago
    Because these choices are very personal and people are very insecure about them. Does you staying home and being alright with it really means she is bad egoistic mother? Does some women liking staying home signify that world is moving back to homemaker side? Does me staying at home (and having to fight changes situation push on you) really means I am naturally lazy or less capable as conservatives like to suggest? In a sense, no one talks about these considerations openly, ever. So it comes out indirectly through attitudes. Everyone is supposed to be motivated only by positive things, you are supposed to stay because you are caring and loving not because you are sucking it up. That idea insults people. You are supposed to work because you love career, not because you don't want to be the lazy nagging stereotype - which you are pretty sure you would turn into if forced to stay at home.
    - Mz 9y ago
      I have plenty of hypotheses of my own as to why other women do this sort of crap to me. In the end, I don't think it matters. If you want to talk about making the world a better place and "equality for all," then shitting all over me because I made different lifestyle choices from you and this hits some nerve of yours -- well, get therapy and quit making it my problem that you aren't actually happy with the lifestyle choices you made. If you want to call yourself a feminist and talk about getting equal rights for women, then I don't want to hear your crap about how your ideals only actually apply to women like you but still exclude large groups of women. I think these are just bitter people who felt "It's a man's world and the least worst option for a woman is to not have children." That's not an idealistic solution. That is not about making the world a better place. That is not about expecting more of the world. That is basically saying "No point in fighting evil. You can't win." Turning around and shitting on me because you gave up years ago makes you part of the problem, not part of the solution.
- watwut 9y ago
  Feminism had always many competing branches.

by Mz 9y ago

lactau 9y ago

>to me, "feminism" is about women wanting careers Second-wave feminism lasted from 1960s to 1980s.

Mz 9y ago
I don't know what relevance that has to anything I said. Aside from the cherry picking aspect of how you (mis)quoted me, I was a homemaker for a lot of years. I am 51 years old. I deal routinely with women who look down upon me because they chose to put their careers first. In some cases, they chose to not have children at all. In their eyes, I absolutely am not their equal and unequivocally not deserving of any real respect. Dealing with such women is usually a worse experience for me than dealing with most men. Such women are typically pretty toxic.
- watwut 9y ago
  Because these choices are very personal and people are very insecure about them. Does you staying home and being alright with it really means she is bad egoistic mother? Does some women liking staying home signify that world is moving back to homemaker side? Does me staying at home (and having to fight changes situation push on you) really means I am naturally lazy or less capable as conservatives like to suggest? In a sense, no one talks about these considerations openly, ever. So it comes out indirectly through attitudes. Everyone is supposed to be motivated only by positive things, you are supposed to stay because you are caring and loving not because you are sucking it up. That idea insults people. You are supposed to work because you love career, not because you don't want to be the lazy nagging stereotype - which you are pretty sure you would turn into if forced to stay at home.
  - Mz 9y ago
    I have plenty of hypotheses of my own as to why other women do this sort of crap to me. In the end, I don't think it matters. If you want to talk about making the world a better place and "equality for all," then shitting all over me because I made different lifestyle choices from you and this hits some nerve of yours -- well, get therapy and quit making it my problem that you aren't actually happy with the lifestyle choices you made. If you want to call yourself a feminist and talk about getting equal rights for women, then I don't want to hear your crap about how your ideals only actually apply to women like you but still exclude large groups of women. I think these are just bitter people who felt "It's a man's world and the least worst option for a woman is to not have children." That's not an idealistic solution. That is not about making the world a better place. That is not about expecting more of the world. That is basically saying "No point in fighting evil. You can't win." Turning around and shitting on me because you gave up years ago makes you part of the problem, not part of the solution.
watwut 9y ago
Feminism had always many competing branches.