4 ms·

Out of interest (I think this forum is not short of people who are in a position to answer): what is the general opinion among US mathematicians about that "new

Out of interest (I think this forum is not short of people who are in a position to answer): what is the general opinion among US mathematicians about that "new math" experiment? I know that it has a terrible reputation, but was it a plain bad idea, or a good idea implemented poorly, or a good idea implemented well but unfairly maligned?

leereeves 9y ago
I don't think mathematicians are the people to ask. "New Math" wasn't new math at all - it was standard abstract concepts known to all mathematicians. The controversy was whether these concepts are useful or helpful to non-mathematicians, and mathematicians may be the least qualified people to answer that.
- mjw1007 9y ago
  They may be, but I'm still interested to know what they think. I already know what non-mathematicians-in-general think.
  - leereeves 9y ago
    Why would they have an opinion at all, unless they were educators, students, or parents at the time?
    - mjw1007 9y ago
      I observe that mathematicians in my country often have informed (and strong) opinions on mathematical education. As does the author of "A Mathematician's Lament". Maybe I have a mistaken impression of how significant "new math" was, but I'd expect people to have thought about it. I mean they've all heard the Tom Lehrer song, right?
    - jimhefferon 9y ago
      I'm a mathematician, and was a student at the time, and am an educator (college professor) and parent now. Not an expert on the New Math, though, but I do teach a lot of people who will be math teachers, both of elementary and high schools, and so will so the Common Core. My sense is that a lot of the reaction to the New Math was the same as the reaction to dictionaries that came out at the time and included words like "groovy" or said that it is not the crime of the century to write "which" when not preceded by a comma. That is, it was more of a political effect than pedagogical. That said, there were a lot of people who thought on a lower or more local level, that math teaching that asked students to notice the Associative Law, or that asked students to think about sets, was not directed to immediate gain. That made it wrong in these folks's view, or at least puzzling. They had not learned those things and one thing about Math is that it is unchanging so ... . I am excited by the Common Core, myself, but I hear a lot of rejection that seems to me to be just general opposition to doing it differently than when the speaker was in school. There was a lot of that in the 60's, for sure.
      - Recurecur 9y ago
        I'm a parent with a child that's currently being subjected to Common Core (second grade). I'm mathematically inclined, when I took my SAT I scored in the top 1% in math. My evaluation of Common Core so far is that it's terrible. Students are forced to learn multiple ways of doing basic arithmetic, which is highly counterproductive and confusing if the child mastered the topic (and concept) with the first approach. It also lacks any aspect of what this essay stresses - helping children see the beauty and creativity of math. The emphasis is on learning processes by rote. We'll see how things progress in the next grade, but I'm not optimistic. Private school is looking very attractive.
ghufran_syed 9y ago
I used to tutor some 16 and 17-year olds in math. It was always heartbreaking to see the school curriculum requiring students to essentially know the "name of a thing" e.g. commutativity, without really ever understanding it or using it. Reminded me of Feynman's account of learning from his father, and the difference between really learning something, and just learning the name of a thing: https://haveabit.com/feynman/knowing-the-name-of-something/ https://haveabit.com/feynman/knowing-the-name-of-something/

leereeves 9y ago

I don't think mathematicians are the people to ask. "New Math" wasn't new math at all - it was standard abstract concepts known to all mathematicians. The controversy was whether these concepts are useful or helpful to non-mathematicians, and mathematicians may be the least qualified people to answer that.

mjw1007 9y ago
They may be, but I'm still interested to know what they think. I already know what non-mathematicians-in-general think.
- leereeves 9y ago
  Why would they have an opinion at all, unless they were educators, students, or parents at the time?
  - mjw1007 9y ago
    I observe that mathematicians in my country often have informed (and strong) opinions on mathematical education. As does the author of "A Mathematician's Lament". Maybe I have a mistaken impression of how significant "new math" was, but I'd expect people to have thought about it. I mean they've all heard the Tom Lehrer song, right?
  - jimhefferon 9y ago
    I'm a mathematician, and was a student at the time, and am an educator (college professor) and parent now. Not an expert on the New Math, though, but I do teach a lot of people who will be math teachers, both of elementary and high schools, and so will so the Common Core. My sense is that a lot of the reaction to the New Math was the same as the reaction to dictionaries that came out at the time and included words like "groovy" or said that it is not the crime of the century to write "which" when not preceded by a comma. That is, it was more of a political effect than pedagogical. That said, there were a lot of people who thought on a lower or more local level, that math teaching that asked students to notice the Associative Law, or that asked students to think about sets, was not directed to immediate gain. That made it wrong in these folks's view, or at least puzzling. They had not learned those things and one thing about Math is that it is unchanging so ... . I am excited by the Common Core, myself, but I hear a lot of rejection that seems to me to be just general opposition to doing it differently than when the speaker was in school. There was a lot of that in the 60's, for sure.
    - Recurecur 9y ago
      I'm a parent with a child that's currently being subjected to Common Core (second grade). I'm mathematically inclined, when I took my SAT I scored in the top 1% in math. My evaluation of Common Core so far is that it's terrible. Students are forced to learn multiple ways of doing basic arithmetic, which is highly counterproductive and confusing if the child mastered the topic (and concept) with the first approach. It also lacks any aspect of what this essay stresses - helping children see the beauty and creativity of math. The emphasis is on learning processes by rote. We'll see how things progress in the next grade, but I'm not optimistic. Private school is looking very attractive.

ghufran_syed 9y ago

I used to tutor some 16 and 17-year olds in math. It was always heartbreaking to see the school curriculum requiring students to essentially know the "name of a thing" e.g. commutativity, without really ever understanding it or using it. Reminded me of Feynman's account of learning from his father, and the difference between really learning something, and just learning the name of a thing: https://haveabit.com/feynman/knowing-the-name-of-something/ https://haveabit.com/feynman/knowing-the-name-of-something/