6 ms·

I had a phase of clinical depression, a long time ago now, but I started sleeping in the 14 inch gap between the bed and the wall, to feel squeezed. I did that

I had a phase of clinical depression, a long time ago now, but I started sleeping in the 14 inch gap between the bed and the wall, to feel squeezed. I did that for months. Who cares what somebody else's science says about it? I liked it and I did it. Does an extra heavy blanket sound nice to you? Then get one. Or don't.

tedmiston 9y ago
The concern I might have with it is if they raised the money with the claim then removed the claim after people had pledged. It wasn't clear to me from the article what the timeline was with changing the language and the end of the campaign.
- stefanwlb 9y ago
  Shouldn't there be some protection from editing original claims, and if changed, that its clear when and what changed in the wording? I find the whole thing ridiculous.
  - tdburn 9y ago
    You can cancel and get a refund before the campaign fundraising period ends
    - gnicholas 9y ago
      Good point. For major edits like this — especially where claims violated Kickstarter's TOS — it would seem appropriate to require the creator to send a message to all backers that communicates the change and the reason for it. Otherwise many backers might not find out about the changed language.
      - mst 9y ago
        Per dstaley's comment up-thread, apparently they did send out a message explaining it.
        gnicholas 9y ago
        Thanks, this comment came a couple hours later so I hadn't seen it. I wonder if Kickstarter required them to send it or if it was voluntary.
    - WillPostForFood 9y ago
      You don't even need to get a refund. Kickstarter doesn't collect money until the end of the campaign, so you can change, withdraw, increase your pledge as much as you want with a couple clicks.
  - egypturnash 9y ago
    FWIW, Kickstarter won't let you change the text of a reward tier as long as someone's pledged for it. You can change the text of the main pitch all you like, though.
- dstaley 9y ago
  Gravity backer here. They sent out an email to all the backers about the change. > That said, we wanted to clarify that our blanket is not an FDA approved medical device, and as such, we've tweaked the language on our Kickstarter accordingly. We hope you understand, and we’re very excited for you to try this out for yourselves.
Broken_Hippo 9y ago
The problem is more about not having customers expect the blanket to cure their psychiatric problems. Such language makes it easy to take advantage of someone who isn't in a mentally strong place at the moment - and puts their hopes of being "normal" into such products when the evidence isn't there. I don't think the product itself is so bad: I like the weight of blankets when I sleep and like them to touch the bed on both sides of me. I'd completely understand a lightweight but weighted blanket during the summer, and I'm guessing it would make some folks feel comforted and so on. I'd much rather them have this sort of honesty in their advertising than the language they had.
URSpider94 9y ago
Yes, exactly. Get one, or don't. But the seller shouldn't tell people that their blanket cures these disorders, unless they have some proof.
- naravara 9y ago
  They never said it cured it. They said it can help.
  - wcummings 9y ago
    They shouldn't tell people it treats them.
  - URSpider94 9y ago
    ... for which they have no evidence.
    - WillPostForFood 9y ago
      There are two studies cited in the article, they both appear very weak, but they are citing evidence.
      - obstinate 9y ago
        Normally when people talk about citing evidence, they're referring to strong evidence. Citing weak evidence can be about as bad as citing none at all, depending on how weak it is.
  - rosser 9y ago
    Claiming to have a "cure" isn't the only thing that's against these rules.
  - justinpombrio 9y ago
    Look, there's no need to have vague arguments about how we would describe their claims. Here is the wording they removed: "The science behind Gravity reveals that it can be used to treat a variety of ailments, including insomnia, post-traumatic stress disorder, obsessive-compulsive disorder, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, as well as circumstantial stress and prolonged anxiety." Assuming that "can be used to treat" means what I think it does, this is simply false: the science doesn't show that. And regardless, claims of this form are specifically forbidden by Kickstarter, which prohibits "any item claiming to cure, treat, or prevent an illness or condition". So they removed this claim, like they should have. None of this contradicts the fact that you might want to buy one of these blankets if you have insomnia, etc.
ebbv 9y ago
If they had just advertised it as "a heavy blanket" do you think it would have gotten funding? It got funding because they made unsubstantiated medical claims, which is illegal for good reason. Otherwise I could sell you "anti-cancer rocks" from my driveway.
- DonHopkins 9y ago
  Maybe so, but then you'd be misrepresenting anti-tiger rocks as anti-cancer rocks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSVqLHghLpw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSVqLHghLpw
- vilhelm_s 9y ago
  Tons of people (particularly on the autism spectrum) like weighted blankets, I don't think it's unreasonable that such a project could get kickstarted.
  - mst 9y ago
    My anecdata matches yours here (notably I know multiple people with both autism and anxiety issues who swear by weighted blankets for helping them sleep).
draw_down 9y ago
Oh wow, I did that for a long time too. I don't even remember when I stoped.
DonHopkins 9y ago
Will it cancel out the therapeutic effects of my Space Blanket?
robg 9y ago
You would agree though that a blanket that claims to cure, without evidence, is misleading and should be regulated?
coldtea 9y ago
>Who cares what somebody else's science says about it? People that dislike snake oil salesmen and don't think there is "my science" and "somebody else's science", but just one science?
- obstinate 9y ago
  Precisely. I have no problem hearing about what worked for you. The moment you start telling someone else it'll work for them, especially if you're looking to get paid based on that claim, you better back it up with evidence.
- mst 9y ago
  I read that to mean "somebody else's scientific (counter)claims", similar to how en_US might contain "according to person X's math". Took me a while to stop being annoyed by the latter, admittedly.

tedmiston 9y ago

The concern I might have with it is if they raised the money with the claim then removed the claim after people had pledged. It wasn't clear to me from the article what the timeline was with changing the language and the end of the campaign.

stefanwlb 9y ago
Shouldn't there be some protection from editing original claims, and if changed, that its clear when and what changed in the wording? I find the whole thing ridiculous.
- tdburn 9y ago
  You can cancel and get a refund before the campaign fundraising period ends
  - gnicholas 9y ago
    Good point. For major edits like this — especially where claims violated Kickstarter's TOS — it would seem appropriate to require the creator to send a message to all backers that communicates the change and the reason for it. Otherwise many backers might not find out about the changed language.
    - mst 9y ago
      Per dstaley's comment up-thread, apparently they did send out a message explaining it.
      - gnicholas 9y ago
        Thanks, this comment came a couple hours later so I hadn't seen it. I wonder if Kickstarter required them to send it or if it was voluntary.
  - WillPostForFood 9y ago
    You don't even need to get a refund. Kickstarter doesn't collect money until the end of the campaign, so you can change, withdraw, increase your pledge as much as you want with a couple clicks.
- egypturnash 9y ago
  FWIW, Kickstarter won't let you change the text of a reward tier as long as someone's pledged for it. You can change the text of the main pitch all you like, though.
dstaley 9y ago
Gravity backer here. They sent out an email to all the backers about the change. > That said, we wanted to clarify that our blanket is not an FDA approved medical device, and as such, we've tweaked the language on our Kickstarter accordingly. We hope you understand, and we’re very excited for you to try this out for yourselves.

Broken_Hippo 9y ago

The problem is more about not having customers expect the blanket to cure their psychiatric problems. Such language makes it easy to take advantage of someone who isn't in a mentally strong place at the moment - and puts their hopes of being "normal" into such products when the evidence isn't there. I don't think the product itself is so bad: I like the weight of blankets when I sleep and like them to touch the bed on both sides of me. I'd completely understand a lightweight but weighted blanket during the summer, and I'm guessing it would make some folks feel comforted and so on. I'd much rather them have this sort of honesty in their advertising than the language they had.

URSpider94 9y ago

Yes, exactly. Get one, or don't. But the seller shouldn't tell people that their blanket cures these disorders, unless they have some proof.

naravara 9y ago
They never said it cured it. They said it can help.
- wcummings 9y ago
  They shouldn't tell people it treats them.
- URSpider94 9y ago
  ... for which they have no evidence.
  - WillPostForFood 9y ago
    There are two studies cited in the article, they both appear very weak, but they are citing evidence.
    - obstinate 9y ago
      Normally when people talk about citing evidence, they're referring to strong evidence. Citing weak evidence can be about as bad as citing none at all, depending on how weak it is.
- rosser 9y ago
  Claiming to have a "cure" isn't the only thing that's against these rules.
- justinpombrio 9y ago
  Look, there's no need to have vague arguments about how we would describe their claims. Here is the wording they removed: "The science behind Gravity reveals that it can be used to treat a variety of ailments, including insomnia, post-traumatic stress disorder, obsessive-compulsive disorder, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, as well as circumstantial stress and prolonged anxiety." Assuming that "can be used to treat" means what I think it does, this is simply false: the science doesn't show that. And regardless, claims of this form are specifically forbidden by Kickstarter, which prohibits "any item claiming to cure, treat, or prevent an illness or condition". So they removed this claim, like they should have. None of this contradicts the fact that you might want to buy one of these blankets if you have insomnia, etc.

ebbv 9y ago

If they had just advertised it as "a heavy blanket" do you think it would have gotten funding? It got funding because they made unsubstantiated medical claims, which is illegal for good reason. Otherwise I could sell you "anti-cancer rocks" from my driveway.

DonHopkins 9y ago
Maybe so, but then you'd be misrepresenting anti-tiger rocks as anti-cancer rocks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSVqLHghLpw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSVqLHghLpw
vilhelm_s 9y ago
Tons of people (particularly on the autism spectrum) like weighted blankets, I don't think it's unreasonable that such a project could get kickstarted.
- mst 9y ago
  My anecdata matches yours here (notably I know multiple people with both autism and anxiety issues who swear by weighted blankets for helping them sleep).

draw_down 9y ago

Oh wow, I did that for a long time too. I don't even remember when I stoped.

DonHopkins 9y ago

Will it cancel out the therapeutic effects of my Space Blanket?

robg 9y ago

You would agree though that a blanket that claims to cure, without evidence, is misleading and should be regulated?

coldtea 9y ago

>Who cares what somebody else's science says about it? People that dislike snake oil salesmen and don't think there is "my science" and "somebody else's science", but just one science?

obstinate 9y ago
Precisely. I have no problem hearing about what worked for you. The moment you start telling someone else it'll work for them, especially if you're looking to get paid based on that claim, you better back it up with evidence.
mst 9y ago
I read that to mean "somebody else's scientific (counter)claims", similar to how en_US might contain "according to person X's math". Took me a while to stop being annoyed by the latter, admittedly.