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The issue goes much deeper than "anyone" can go to college. Their is a huge education disparity between wealthy zip codes and poor zip codes. So, yes you were i

The issue goes much deeper than "anyone" can go to college. Their is a huge education disparity between wealthy zip codes and poor zip codes. So, yes you were in an AP English class. How many of your fellow classmates do you think were on free and/or reduced lunch? How many students in the regular English classes were on free/reduced lunch? The educational disparity is the real root of this problem. You add in that the average salary of a teacher after 5 years of experience is less than nearly any job after 5 years of experience. This feeds into educational disparity even further as the good teachers want to teach in a wealthier school district as it is a much easier position to be in. More support from teachers, "smarter" kids, ability to get paid more as the taxes from that area can afford better teachers. Contrast that with poor school districts and you get the exact opposite. You have a variety of kids from troubled homes, you don't know if they had or can afford breakfast, you don't know if they have even a remotely okay home environment to do homework in. So sure, "anyone" with a pulse can get into college but the real issue is not that. It starts much, much earlier in the education system. It took me a long time to figure out how fortunate I was to grow up in a wealthier school district, and the fact that I worked my ass off to get where I am now but I'd be lying if because of white privilege + a wealthier zip code I wasn't exposed to more opportunities that made busting my ass pay off more.

calcifer 9y ago
> Their is a huge education disparity I agree with your overall point, but given the "proper language" nature of this thread I feel I must: there, not their.
- brogrammernot 9y ago
  Hahahaha. Damnit. Goes to show, even with a graduate degree(in progress) there, their and they're still screwing with me
valuearb 9y ago
There is a disparity. It's linked to parental effort, not wealth. Sure wealth makes it easier to get tutors and such, but primarily kids who excel have parents who read to them and worked with them on homework. And teachers benefits outstrip almost any other job. Far more time off, pensions, good healthcare, etc. It's not a problem of what teachers are paid (there is no teacher shortage), it's a problem of how they are managed. Limited competition, degree and seniority driven promotion, tenure, etc. But again, the best teacher in the world is going to struggle if their kid's parents don't give a crap about working with them at night.
- pyrale 9y ago
  You're ignoring that: -having parents at home, or not working two jobs to make ends meet is linked to wealth -having parents with good education has a significant impact on how much they can help children -having parents with wealth means children get a better environment and are more susceptible to focus on work -... (Also you're denying the overwhelming evidence of stats and science on this matter)
nathanasmith 9y ago
You're making a lot of assumptions here. Myself and quite a few of my classmates in AP English ate free lunch.
- brogrammernot 9y ago
  I'd be willing to bet that if a survey was done showing the % of those in AP classes who are on free/reduced lunch would be significantly less than those of a general education class.
  - nathanasmith 9y ago
    Exactly my point. I'm speaking from experience and you're going on about what you'd "bet". If you're so sure you have it all figured out, why don't you go do your survey and stop talking about it.
    - brogrammernot 9y ago
      Do you usually get this defense on an open Internet forum? I was on reduced lunch as well for many years at my school, and out of the 70ish kids in our AP "block" format(2 hours, same room, co-teachers) only 3 other kids were on reduced lunch. Again, wealthy zip code(s) make up the school boundaries and small % of kids on reduced lunch that I was aware of. If I managed to offend you, that wasn't my intent. There's plenty of research out there showing the importance of parents in the home, and many other factors that have a correlation with income and income drives free/reduced lunch. Additionally, several of my friends did/are doing Teach for America in extremely poor school districts. Add on top of that, that while I lived in LA I volunteered at after school programs for children. So please, don't judge someone when you don't have the background of what someone has been through or seen first hand. One day I'd love to be able to fund a study of things like this, but until that day I'll have to rely on my "bets".
      - nathanasmith 9y ago
        edited for politeness' sake
Banthum 9y ago
This reads like you think everyone has equal basic intellectual potential. The scientific consensus is that there is a Gaussian distribution of intelligence, and most intelligence variation is heritable [1]. Aside from the most extreme criminal abuse, people reach their genetic IQ potential regardless of what zip code they're in or whether their parents pay attention to them [2]. So you are correct that you're privileged, but your privilege isn't your social position at birth; it is your genes. That's what made busting your ass pay off more. You could've been born in the same house with 100 IQ and had no chance at joking about being a "brogrammer". [1] http://differentialclub.wdfiles.com/local--files/definitions-structure-and-measurement/Intelligence-Knowns-and-unknowns.pdf http://differentialclub.wdfiles.com/local--files/definitions... [2] http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/04/21/ssc-journal-club-childhood-trauma-and-cognition/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/04/21/ssc-journal-club-childh...
- brogrammernot 9y ago
  Fascinating articles. Thanks for the share. I need to look into this further. I do openly admit that I do believe that grit is one of the most fundamental elements of individual success but I do think also that the distribution of intellectual potential is much smaller than the studies suggest. Albeit, this is a gut/personal opinion and the research out that you've shared has me challenging the belief I hold.

calcifer 9y ago

> Their is a huge education disparity I agree with your overall point, but given the "proper language" nature of this thread I feel I must: there, not their.

brogrammernot 9y ago
Hahahaha. Damnit. Goes to show, even with a graduate degree(in progress) there, their and they're still screwing with me

valuearb 9y ago

There is a disparity. It's linked to parental effort, not wealth. Sure wealth makes it easier to get tutors and such, but primarily kids who excel have parents who read to them and worked with them on homework. And teachers benefits outstrip almost any other job. Far more time off, pensions, good healthcare, etc. It's not a problem of what teachers are paid (there is no teacher shortage), it's a problem of how they are managed. Limited competition, degree and seniority driven promotion, tenure, etc. But again, the best teacher in the world is going to struggle if their kid's parents don't give a crap about working with them at night.

pyrale 9y ago
You're ignoring that: -having parents at home, or not working two jobs to make ends meet is linked to wealth -having parents with good education has a significant impact on how much they can help children -having parents with wealth means children get a better environment and are more susceptible to focus on work -... (Also you're denying the overwhelming evidence of stats and science on this matter)

nathanasmith 9y ago

You're making a lot of assumptions here. Myself and quite a few of my classmates in AP English ate free lunch.

brogrammernot 9y ago
I'd be willing to bet that if a survey was done showing the % of those in AP classes who are on free/reduced lunch would be significantly less than those of a general education class.
- nathanasmith 9y ago
  Exactly my point. I'm speaking from experience and you're going on about what you'd "bet". If you're so sure you have it all figured out, why don't you go do your survey and stop talking about it.
  - brogrammernot 9y ago
    Do you usually get this defense on an open Internet forum? I was on reduced lunch as well for many years at my school, and out of the 70ish kids in our AP "block" format(2 hours, same room, co-teachers) only 3 other kids were on reduced lunch. Again, wealthy zip code(s) make up the school boundaries and small % of kids on reduced lunch that I was aware of. If I managed to offend you, that wasn't my intent. There's plenty of research out there showing the importance of parents in the home, and many other factors that have a correlation with income and income drives free/reduced lunch. Additionally, several of my friends did/are doing Teach for America in extremely poor school districts. Add on top of that, that while I lived in LA I volunteered at after school programs for children. So please, don't judge someone when you don't have the background of what someone has been through or seen first hand. One day I'd love to be able to fund a study of things like this, but until that day I'll have to rely on my "bets".
    - nathanasmith 9y ago
      edited for politeness' sake

Banthum 9y ago

This reads like you think everyone has equal basic intellectual potential. The scientific consensus is that there is a Gaussian distribution of intelligence, and most intelligence variation is heritable [1]. Aside from the most extreme criminal abuse, people reach their genetic IQ potential regardless of what zip code they're in or whether their parents pay attention to them [2]. So you are correct that you're privileged, but your privilege isn't your social position at birth; it is your genes. That's what made busting your ass pay off more. You could've been born in the same house with 100 IQ and had no chance at joking about being a "brogrammer". [1] http://differentialclub.wdfiles.com/local--files/definitions-structure-and-measurement/Intelligence-Knowns-and-unknowns.pdf http://differentialclub.wdfiles.com/local--files/definitions... [2] http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/04/21/ssc-journal-club-childhood-trauma-and-cognition/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/04/21/ssc-journal-club-childh...

brogrammernot 9y ago
Fascinating articles. Thanks for the share. I need to look into this further. I do openly admit that I do believe that grit is one of the most fundamental elements of individual success but I do think also that the distribution of intellectual potential is much smaller than the studies suggest. Albeit, this is a gut/personal opinion and the research out that you've shared has me challenging the belief I hold.