4 ms·

Virtually zero jobs require 20 years of education or degrees, 99% of jobs can be learned with a boot camp.

by valuearb 10y ago

sumoboy 10y ago
I sure don't want any of that 99% being a doctor or lawyer just finishing a boot camp.
- spacelizard 10y ago
  I do. There are all kinds of things wrong with requiring 20 years of study just to be able to have a chance to do a job properly. If done properly, we can reduce that time significantly.
  - andrewflnr 10y ago
    I'm inclined to agree about lawyers, but for medicine I'm pretty sure there just is that much to learn.
    - maxerickson 10y ago
      I imagine most doctors would be just fine as doctors if they graduated from high school at age 16 and also skipped 1 year (maybe 2) of undergrad. A great way to spend more money on education would be to target lowering high school graduation age to 17, with at least a year of training oriented education for students that weren't interested in an academic track and a faster academic track for students that did want it. The idea that everybody gets value out of Algebra II is pretty confused and at my Big 10 university, I often knew more history on days I hadn't done the reading than most of the people in my discussion class (that is, our "well prepared" high school students aren't coming out of high school well rounded anyway, lets drop the pretense).
- adpirz 10y ago
  Boot camp is hyperbole for medicine, but the medical field itself is beginning to recognize (at least in the US) that the path to becoming a physician is much longer than need be, especially given the shortage we have especially for GPs.
  - c0nfused 10y ago
    My impression is that the medical field is mostly increasing the number of new MDs but not the number of residency slots. This means that soon medical school will end up like law school where you can get a law degree but not a job. You need at least a year of residency to be able to practice medicine in any state, to get a real job you need to finish. http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/healthcare/266610-shortage-of-residency-slots-may-have-chilling-effect-on-next http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/healthcare/266610-sho...
    - maxerickson 10y ago
      It would be easy to fix. Current spending on residency programs is something like 10 or 15 billion dollars. With more than 3 trillion dollars in healthcare spending, a 10 billion dollar experiment aimed at lowering costs is cheap. (and of course it isn't necessary to immediately double the number of slots in order to soak up the extra MDs)
  - mirimir 10y ago
    Maybe we have a shortage of GPs because specialists, such as plastic surgeons, earn lots more money.
- mindcrime 10y ago
  If all I need is an ingrown toenail removed, or a prescription for an anti-fungal cream or something, I'd be totally fine with a doctor who went to a boot camp. Why would I want to pay for somebody who is dramatically overqualified - and correspondingly more expensive - to take care of a minor problem?
  - MandieD 10y ago
    You want someone "overqualified" who can tell the difference between a fungal infection that just needs a prescription anti-fungal cream, and one that is affecting more than just your foot and/or requires something beyond a cream.
    - mindcrime 10y ago
      So, what, you think every medical issue demands the same level of expertise? Do we really need somebody with 8 years of schooling, residencies, etc. to deal with every little issue? Personally, I think the answer is "no". That in no way suggests that there isn't a role for the hyper-educated / trained doctor, or for even more highly trained specialists. The point is just that not every situation requires them.
ashark 10y ago
I recently composed an email for someone with a degree in mathematics but little experience with computers, outlining what they'd need to do to bridge the gab between their current position and someone with a degree or strong self-taught skills in CS. When I started I thought it'd be fairly short. It wasn't, and much of the difference wasn't theoretical CS stuff—it was "stupid computer shit". Tools, the command line, daemons, implementation details for a dozen key technologies, debuggers, and on and on and on. I think I'd underestimated how much all that time I'd spent futzing with DOS to make my games work, or playing with operating systems, or running a message board for my friends, and so on, had provided the foundation for my success as a developer. The hours weren't spent optimally, but they were spent in great quantity, and most people didn't grow up with that kind of running head-start into the industry. It's a giant hurdle to overcome.
- autokad 10y ago
  that's exactly what i meant =)

Virtually zero jobs require 20 years of education or degrees, 99% of jobs can be learned with a boot camp.

sumoboy 10y ago

I sure don't want any of that 99% being a doctor or lawyer just finishing a boot camp.

spacelizard 10y ago
I do. There are all kinds of things wrong with requiring 20 years of study just to be able to have a chance to do a job properly. If done properly, we can reduce that time significantly.
- andrewflnr 10y ago
  I'm inclined to agree about lawyers, but for medicine I'm pretty sure there just is that much to learn.
  - maxerickson 10y ago
    I imagine most doctors would be just fine as doctors if they graduated from high school at age 16 and also skipped 1 year (maybe 2) of undergrad. A great way to spend more money on education would be to target lowering high school graduation age to 17, with at least a year of training oriented education for students that weren't interested in an academic track and a faster academic track for students that did want it. The idea that everybody gets value out of Algebra II is pretty confused and at my Big 10 university, I often knew more history on days I hadn't done the reading than most of the people in my discussion class (that is, our "well prepared" high school students aren't coming out of high school well rounded anyway, lets drop the pretense).
adpirz 10y ago
Boot camp is hyperbole for medicine, but the medical field itself is beginning to recognize (at least in the US) that the path to becoming a physician is much longer than need be, especially given the shortage we have especially for GPs.
- c0nfused 10y ago
  My impression is that the medical field is mostly increasing the number of new MDs but not the number of residency slots. This means that soon medical school will end up like law school where you can get a law degree but not a job. You need at least a year of residency to be able to practice medicine in any state, to get a real job you need to finish. http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/healthcare/266610-shortage-of-residency-slots-may-have-chilling-effect-on-next http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/healthcare/266610-sho...
  - maxerickson 10y ago
    It would be easy to fix. Current spending on residency programs is something like 10 or 15 billion dollars. With more than 3 trillion dollars in healthcare spending, a 10 billion dollar experiment aimed at lowering costs is cheap. (and of course it isn't necessary to immediately double the number of slots in order to soak up the extra MDs)
- mirimir 10y ago
  Maybe we have a shortage of GPs because specialists, such as plastic surgeons, earn lots more money.
mindcrime 10y ago
If all I need is an ingrown toenail removed, or a prescription for an anti-fungal cream or something, I'd be totally fine with a doctor who went to a boot camp. Why would I want to pay for somebody who is dramatically overqualified - and correspondingly more expensive - to take care of a minor problem?
- MandieD 10y ago
  You want someone "overqualified" who can tell the difference between a fungal infection that just needs a prescription anti-fungal cream, and one that is affecting more than just your foot and/or requires something beyond a cream.
  - mindcrime 10y ago
    So, what, you think every medical issue demands the same level of expertise? Do we really need somebody with 8 years of schooling, residencies, etc. to deal with every little issue? Personally, I think the answer is "no". That in no way suggests that there isn't a role for the hyper-educated / trained doctor, or for even more highly trained specialists. The point is just that not every situation requires them.

ashark 10y ago

I recently composed an email for someone with a degree in mathematics but little experience with computers, outlining what they'd need to do to bridge the gab between their current position and someone with a degree or strong self-taught skills in CS. When I started I thought it'd be fairly short. It wasn't, and much of the difference wasn't theoretical CS stuff—it was "stupid computer shit". Tools, the command line, daemons, implementation details for a dozen key technologies, debuggers, and on and on and on. I think I'd underestimated how much all that time I'd spent futzing with DOS to make my games work, or playing with operating systems, or running a message board for my friends, and so on, had provided the foundation for my success as a developer. The hours weren't spent optimally, but they were spent in great quantity, and most people didn't grow up with that kind of running head-start into the industry. It's a giant hurdle to overcome.

autokad 10y ago
that's exactly what i meant =)