4 ms·

The patent doesn't appear to describe tiling window management, but the composition of a window layout using a number of menu options that integrate neatly with

by geocar 9y ago

The patent doesn't appear to describe tiling window management, but the composition of a window layout using a number of menu options that integrate neatly with the existing environment's window controls, and that visually demonstrate their effect. Indeed the patent describes a user interface to accomplish this that looks very similar to screenshots of Moom. My experience with the USPTO is that statements like "I don't see anything in the patent that sounds novel to me" doesn't amuse them and they take this sort of thing seriously. Whether you agree with software patents or not, I think it's important to not be too dismissive of that fact. [1]: https://www.google.com/patents/US20090300541#forward-citations https://www.google.com/patents/US20090300541#forward-citatio...

tyingq 9y ago
>The patent doesn't appear to describe tiling window management It does though. The screenshots show grid options, and describe how the end user can place windows in the grid. It specifically complains about how MS Windows has overlapping windows. Grid + no overlap == tiling. >Indeed the patent describes a user interface to accomplish this that looks very similar to screenshots of Moom. Sure. The argument about "novel" is that the patent holder wasn't the first to do something "similar to Moom". The idea that 2008 was the first time someone had the notion of grid layouts and allowing an end user to place a window in them is just silly.
- geocar 9y ago
  It may be silly, but remember that the US uses first-to-file, not first-to-invent.
  - tyingq 9y ago
    First to file, though, is just about the patent being granted. Once you start using your patent to bully people, prior art, even non-patented prior art, can be used against you. Edit: "Once the patent has issued, you can challenge it at the USPTO by filing a request for reexamination of the patent"[1] [1] https://www.uspto.gov/patents-maintaining-patent/patent-litigation/about-patents https://www.uspto.gov/patents-maintaining-patent/patent-liti... Edit2: It's also possible there are overlapping, earlier patents. This one looks promising...compare the drawings: https://www.google.com/patents/US5712995 https://www.google.com/patents/US5712995
    - geocar 9y ago
      That's not what 35 USC. § 273 says. It says that commercial prior use may be legitimate defence for that prior use, which isn't the same thing at all.
    - geocar 9y ago
      > Edit2: It's also possible there are overlapping, earlier patents. This one looks promising...compare the drawings: There's also: https://www.google.com/patents/US5796402 https://www.google.com/patents/US5796402
  - wbl 9y ago
    That only comes up when two people file for patents that overlap. You cannot patent known inventions.
- DanBC 9y ago
  > The idea that 2008 was the first time someone had the notion of grid layouts and allowing an end user to place a window in them is just silly. That's not what's being patented. The gui menu to select placement of windows is what's being patented. Did that exist before 2008?
  - tyingq 9y ago
    Yes, it did. I know I used window managers with almost the same grid square select in the 1990's. Not able to conjure up a screenshot yet. I did find one that's very close, here: http://www.badros.com/greg/papers/scwm-extensible-wm.pdf http://www.badros.com/greg/papers/scwm-extensible-wm.pdf That is clearly a UI for dynamic window placement and sizing, just not with the exact grid dynamic, though you can define new constraints, so it's possible it can do it as well. It's not the one I remember, but it's hard to Google up old UI's in HN time. Given some time, I'm sure I could find something exactly like it.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

by geocar 9y ago

tyingq 9y ago

>The patent doesn't appear to describe tiling window management It does though. The screenshots show grid options, and describe how the end user can place windows in the grid. It specifically complains about how MS Windows has overlapping windows. Grid + no overlap == tiling. >Indeed the patent describes a user interface to accomplish this that looks very similar to screenshots of Moom. Sure. The argument about "novel" is that the patent holder wasn't the first to do something "similar to Moom". The idea that 2008 was the first time someone had the notion of grid layouts and allowing an end user to place a window in them is just silly.

geocar 9y ago
It may be silly, but remember that the US uses first-to-file, not first-to-invent.
- tyingq 9y ago
  First to file, though, is just about the patent being granted. Once you start using your patent to bully people, prior art, even non-patented prior art, can be used against you. Edit: "Once the patent has issued, you can challenge it at the USPTO by filing a request for reexamination of the patent"[1] [1] https://www.uspto.gov/patents-maintaining-patent/patent-litigation/about-patents https://www.uspto.gov/patents-maintaining-patent/patent-liti... Edit2: It's also possible there are overlapping, earlier patents. This one looks promising...compare the drawings: https://www.google.com/patents/US5712995 https://www.google.com/patents/US5712995
  - geocar 9y ago
    That's not what 35 USC. § 273 says. It says that commercial prior use may be legitimate defence for that prior use, which isn't the same thing at all.
  - geocar 9y ago
    > Edit2: It's also possible there are overlapping, earlier patents. This one looks promising...compare the drawings: There's also: https://www.google.com/patents/US5796402 https://www.google.com/patents/US5796402
- wbl 9y ago
  That only comes up when two people file for patents that overlap. You cannot patent known inventions.
DanBC 9y ago
> The idea that 2008 was the first time someone had the notion of grid layouts and allowing an end user to place a window in them is just silly. That's not what's being patented. The gui menu to select placement of windows is what's being patented. Did that exist before 2008?
- tyingq 9y ago
  Yes, it did. I know I used window managers with almost the same grid square select in the 1990's. Not able to conjure up a screenshot yet. I did find one that's very close, here: http://www.badros.com/greg/papers/scwm-extensible-wm.pdf http://www.badros.com/greg/papers/scwm-extensible-wm.pdf That is clearly a UI for dynamic window placement and sizing, just not with the exact grid dynamic, though you can define new constraints, so it's possible it can do it as well. It's not the one I remember, but it's hard to Google up old UI's in HN time. Given some time, I'm sure I could find something exactly like it.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]