5 ms·

That's google essentially rendering the value-proposition of their bootloader-unlockable phones to be a negative one. Wth would I pay extra for a Nexus/Pixel i

That's google essentially rendering the value-proposition of their bootloader-unlockable phones to be a negative one. Wth would I pay extra for a Nexus/Pixel if unlocking it causes all Android software which uses DRM to start failing due to "not being compatible"? Might as well buy a Samsung then. Or even better: an iPhone. It's no longer your device anyway. And to think Android was once open source. Now it's infected with DRM all the way down to the bootloader. Such a shame. There are no free devices anymore. Edit: to clear I've always been OK with DRM in apps (as opposed to HTML) because that clearly isolates it from the general purposey bits of the platform. Seems that's no longer the case with Android.

qb45 10y ago
> I've always been OK with DRM in apps You want to eat your cake and have it too. DRM is technically impossible, so problems like the one you described are inevitable. Bummer, I guess.
- dante821 10y ago
  If DRM is technically impossible, then encryption is technically impossible too... yet we use it.
  - dozzie 10y ago
    DRM is data asking "dear program, please don't let to copy me". It falls apart the moment you have anything to interpret data that doesn't honour this request. Encryption, on the other hand, is a technically sound idea.
- mikevin 10y ago
  Can you expand on why DRM is technically impossible? I don't disagree but I'm wondering about your reasoning.
  - josteink 10y ago
    It's about trying to preventing you from accessing encrypted content while having to hand you the key somehow. They are giving you access, so somehow you should be able to get the stream should you want to.
  - qb45 10y ago
    "Impossible" is a bit rhetorical, although in principle the content has to be decrypted to be seen and a Sufficiently Sophisticated Attacker can always somehow extract the decrypted data from the device, in more practical terms this can be made pretty much arbitrarily difficult. What I really meant is that making DRM difficult to crack generally goes against owner control over the machine. The more control you have the easier it is to simply copy the decrypted data or at least attempt exploiting some bugs in the DRM engine if the former is impossible. So we see things like signed bootloaders or dedicated "secure" cores running alongside normal CPUs with some secret firmware on them. In particular, it seems that Android's DRM can be subverted by the bootloader (presumably it uses the ARM TrustZone extension, which is configured by the bootloader and then locked away from the OS) and hence the OP has to choose between DRM and unlocked bootloader.
blablabla123 10y ago
Actually the Fairphone is quite free. Unfortunately the Fairphone 2 isn't rooted by default anymore, but you can install an alternative (official) Software. Like with the FP1 you must even opt-in to install Google Apps. I can only encourage you to support the project. Even though not all parts of it are free yet, if you check out the young history, you'll see that it has the clear goal of providing a truly free (and conflict free) phone.

qb45 10y ago

> I've always been OK with DRM in apps You want to eat your cake and have it too. DRM is technically impossible, so problems like the one you described are inevitable. Bummer, I guess.

dante821 10y ago
If DRM is technically impossible, then encryption is technically impossible too... yet we use it.
- dozzie 10y ago
  DRM is data asking "dear program, please don't let to copy me". It falls apart the moment you have anything to interpret data that doesn't honour this request. Encryption, on the other hand, is a technically sound idea.
mikevin 10y ago
Can you expand on why DRM is technically impossible? I don't disagree but I'm wondering about your reasoning.
- josteink 10y ago
  It's about trying to preventing you from accessing encrypted content while having to hand you the key somehow. They are giving you access, so somehow you should be able to get the stream should you want to.
- qb45 10y ago
  "Impossible" is a bit rhetorical, although in principle the content has to be decrypted to be seen and a Sufficiently Sophisticated Attacker can always somehow extract the decrypted data from the device, in more practical terms this can be made pretty much arbitrarily difficult. What I really meant is that making DRM difficult to crack generally goes against owner control over the machine. The more control you have the easier it is to simply copy the decrypted data or at least attempt exploiting some bugs in the DRM engine if the former is impossible. So we see things like signed bootloaders or dedicated "secure" cores running alongside normal CPUs with some secret firmware on them. In particular, it seems that Android's DRM can be subverted by the bootloader (presumably it uses the ARM TrustZone extension, which is configured by the bootloader and then locked away from the OS) and hence the OP has to choose between DRM and unlocked bootloader.

blablabla123 10y ago

Actually the Fairphone is quite free. Unfortunately the Fairphone 2 isn't rooted by default anymore, but you can install an alternative (official) Software. Like with the FP1 you must even opt-in to install Google Apps. I can only encourage you to support the project. Even though not all parts of it are free yet, if you check out the young history, you'll see that it has the clear goal of providing a truly free (and conflict free) phone.