4 ms·

> It's a business No, it's not, and it's pretty damn rude to make that claim in the presence of legitimate businesspeople.

klez 9y ago
They didn't say "reputable business". Even the mob is a business, meaning "something whose purpose is making money" (over-simplified, but I'm sure you'll get the point).
- mowenz 9y ago
  The definition of a business is an entity which provides goods/services to consumers. The typical moral distinction b/w a business and other entities which make[1] money is a business (presumably) does it within the constraint of their counterparties enjoying the liberty of choice. This becomes a grey area when government enters the picture and removes liberties--which is why there is debate about the legitimate role of government's monopoly on legitimate violence/aggression here. 1 - note, a further distinction could be made between entities which create value, and those which transfer it.
  - beaconstudios 9y ago
    > The definition of a business is an entity which provides goods/services to consumers. That's not true. A business is a vehicle for making money, that's it. Most businesses do this by providing goods or services, but certainly not all - for example, financial traders that only manage their own funds, like the Renaissance Medallion fund.
    - mowenz 9y ago
      Financial traders are still buying and selling goods and services with a counterparty. Even here, we still can observe that in most cases (except those where government interferes, or perhaps with organized crime) the counterparty is also enjoying a choice in whether or not they want to do the deal. I would argue that in cases where a counterparty has no choice, such a scheme should not be viewed as a legitimate busines, as it historically would not be.
      - beaconstudios 9y ago
        that's basically the root argument of libertarianism - that forced transactions are unethical and thus taxation is theft. I'd still argue that a business does not have to provide a good or service to be considered a business though. The Medallion Fund that I mentioned solely exists to make money for its owners - it does not provide any goods or services.
ageofwant 9y ago
Oh please. How many "legitimate businesspeople" believe its their moral duty to spend millions on tax evasion lawyers and schemes. That think nothing of destroying thousands of lives and millions of man years worth of hard-gotten savings from the defenseless with legal but immoral schemes. It is perfectly legitimate business people that refer to patients as "units" and literally let them die if not money can be made of them. I'll type all day and not get to 10% of legit accusations I can make against "legitimate businesspeople". I'll take an honest crook any day.
- xorxornop 9y ago
  Haha, yep. At least they're honest about screwing you.

klez 9y ago

They didn't say "reputable business". Even the mob is a business, meaning "something whose purpose is making money" (over-simplified, but I'm sure you'll get the point).

mowenz 9y ago
The definition of a business is an entity which provides goods/services to consumers. The typical moral distinction b/w a business and other entities which make[1] money is a business (presumably) does it within the constraint of their counterparties enjoying the liberty of choice. This becomes a grey area when government enters the picture and removes liberties--which is why there is debate about the legitimate role of government's monopoly on legitimate violence/aggression here. 1 - note, a further distinction could be made between entities which create value, and those which transfer it.
- beaconstudios 9y ago
  > The definition of a business is an entity which provides goods/services to consumers. That's not true. A business is a vehicle for making money, that's it. Most businesses do this by providing goods or services, but certainly not all - for example, financial traders that only manage their own funds, like the Renaissance Medallion fund.
  - mowenz 9y ago
    Financial traders are still buying and selling goods and services with a counterparty. Even here, we still can observe that in most cases (except those where government interferes, or perhaps with organized crime) the counterparty is also enjoying a choice in whether or not they want to do the deal. I would argue that in cases where a counterparty has no choice, such a scheme should not be viewed as a legitimate busines, as it historically would not be.
    - beaconstudios 9y ago
      that's basically the root argument of libertarianism - that forced transactions are unethical and thus taxation is theft. I'd still argue that a business does not have to provide a good or service to be considered a business though. The Medallion Fund that I mentioned solely exists to make money for its owners - it does not provide any goods or services.

ageofwant 9y ago

Oh please. How many "legitimate businesspeople" believe its their moral duty to spend millions on tax evasion lawyers and schemes. That think nothing of destroying thousands of lives and millions of man years worth of hard-gotten savings from the defenseless with legal but immoral schemes. It is perfectly legitimate business people that refer to patients as "units" and literally let them die if not money can be made of them. I'll type all day and not get to 10% of legit accusations I can make against "legitimate businesspeople". I'll take an honest crook any day.

xorxornop 9y ago
Haha, yep. At least they're honest about screwing you.