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> They were saying that the U.S. (government through laws and legal system) centered on "fairness" up until recently. Sometime after WWII the focus changed to E

> They were saying that the U.S. (government through laws and legal system) centered on "fairness" up until recently. Sometime after WWII the focus changed to Economics and growth. I absolutely agree with this. Considering the history and how we used to run public schools, it seems almost obvious. American nationalism was at an all-time high during World War 2 and we rode that straight into the Cold War... 50 years of anti-soviet propaganda and public discourse, riding the post-WW2 American economic boom and global "anti-communist" imperialism. For an entire generation community-oriented principles, egalitarianism, collectivist ideas, and far-left leaders were demonized as Soviet sympathizers, replaced with rah rah unregulated capitalism, Ayn Rand-ian individualist, and military might. If you've ever wondered why many modern American Christians blatantly disregard the liberal social aspects of Jesus/the Bible, look no further. WW2's morale-boosting propaganda morphed into a cancer of civil discourse, deeply coupling nationalism with the perceived indisputable success of American capitalism. Consider these two points: * The Cold War started 70 years ago, and formally ended 26 years ago * 2016 Trump / Sanders popularity, bucketed by age: http://www.msnbc.com/sites/msnbc/files/age_of_voting_groups_18-24_25-34_35-44_45-54_55-64_65_and_over_chartbuilder_2.png http://www.msnbc.com/sites/msnbc/files/age_of_voting_groups_... American society takes time to change because our 2-party system is dominated by unengaged voters, the uneducated electorate that votes without thinking about it... heavily influenced by the world they grew up in, and what they were taught from k-12. When many election results are +/- 5%, moving the average 10% in one direction has long-term consequences. It's worth thinking about how our 17 year-old "War on Terror" will continue to change society...

trynumber9 9y ago
So, what was the first Red Scare, Sacco and Vanzetti, or the Scopes Trial in the 20s about then? Many of the things you attribute to the Cold War-era were present in the 1920s USA. The biggest difference was isolation.
- losteric 9y ago
  What's the difference? The first Red Scare was 3 years of isolated domestic violent agitation, and public response was largely focused on those agitators. The second Red Scare was a 50-year ideological war that saturated the nation, a generation raised demonizing concepts as "un-American" before becoming the teachers and politicians of their children. It takes time heal from that dogma.
  - taway_1212 9y ago
    You seem to be overlooking the fact that, thanks to "that dogma", America is not a part of the Soviet Union today.
    - taway_1212 9y ago
      Can anyone explain the downvotes? I am not saying that the pro-American propaganda was the only factor that decided that in the end US prevailed over USSR, but it's undeniable that it did contribute.
      - losteric 9y ago
        Down votes are meant to self-moderate against non-contributing content (shitposts), up votes are for content that inspires discussion, and not voting is for everything in between. Immature people can't debate, so they express disagreement with down votes. Reddit was ruined by this, I'm sad to see civil immaturity spreading to HN. I suppose down votes could be replaced with a "flag post", and a consensus driven moderation pool... or maybe reducing the weight of a down vote based on the voter's ratio of votes to posts (penalizing the non-contribution judgement of non-contributors).
    - losteric 9y ago
      Are you familiar with the phrase "cutting off the nose to spite the face"? Dogmatism is a fear-induced lobotomy, intentionally unlearning and stigmatizing certain solutions to problems... if dogma fatally poisoned American democratic capitalism, then our victory was pyrrhic at best. In fact, dogma is antithetical to both capitalism and democracy, which assume an ideal rational populace. A rational society strives for improvements. They would have invested in more socratic education, deeper rational thinking, and an open fair evaluation of ideas. Ideas that pass rigorous evaluation hold merit and warrant experimentation. If aspects of communism could improve parts of our society, we should use them. Dogma is indefensible, and I feel like that point should be self-evident on HN. Successful startups don't copy history. We solve problems by forming rational strategies based on data and logic, chasing "impossible" ideas because they are good and work. We understand that processes and technology are tools, a means to an end... why would socioeconomic theory be any different? And anyway, America was never even close to becoming part of the Soviet Union. Nuclear annihilation was the big risk, but dogma does not work against ICBMs.

trynumber9 9y ago

So, what was the first Red Scare, Sacco and Vanzetti, or the Scopes Trial in the 20s about then? Many of the things you attribute to the Cold War-era were present in the 1920s USA. The biggest difference was isolation.

losteric 9y ago
What's the difference? The first Red Scare was 3 years of isolated domestic violent agitation, and public response was largely focused on those agitators. The second Red Scare was a 50-year ideological war that saturated the nation, a generation raised demonizing concepts as "un-American" before becoming the teachers and politicians of their children. It takes time heal from that dogma.
- taway_1212 9y ago
  You seem to be overlooking the fact that, thanks to "that dogma", America is not a part of the Soviet Union today.
  - taway_1212 9y ago
    Can anyone explain the downvotes? I am not saying that the pro-American propaganda was the only factor that decided that in the end US prevailed over USSR, but it's undeniable that it did contribute.
    - losteric 9y ago
      Down votes are meant to self-moderate against non-contributing content (shitposts), up votes are for content that inspires discussion, and not voting is for everything in between. Immature people can't debate, so they express disagreement with down votes. Reddit was ruined by this, I'm sad to see civil immaturity spreading to HN. I suppose down votes could be replaced with a "flag post", and a consensus driven moderation pool... or maybe reducing the weight of a down vote based on the voter's ratio of votes to posts (penalizing the non-contribution judgement of non-contributors).
  - losteric 9y ago
    Are you familiar with the phrase "cutting off the nose to spite the face"? Dogmatism is a fear-induced lobotomy, intentionally unlearning and stigmatizing certain solutions to problems... if dogma fatally poisoned American democratic capitalism, then our victory was pyrrhic at best. In fact, dogma is antithetical to both capitalism and democracy, which assume an ideal rational populace. A rational society strives for improvements. They would have invested in more socratic education, deeper rational thinking, and an open fair evaluation of ideas. Ideas that pass rigorous evaluation hold merit and warrant experimentation. If aspects of communism could improve parts of our society, we should use them. Dogma is indefensible, and I feel like that point should be self-evident on HN. Successful startups don't copy history. We solve problems by forming rational strategies based on data and logic, chasing "impossible" ideas because they are good and work. We understand that processes and technology are tools, a means to an end... why would socioeconomic theory be any different? And anyway, America was never even close to becoming part of the Soviet Union. Nuclear annihilation was the big risk, but dogma does not work against ICBMs.