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I completely agree and I've taken issue with this as well. This is something that is hugely susceptible to confirmation bias for the exact reason you stated: me

I completely agree and I've taken issue with this as well. This is something that is hugely susceptible to confirmation bias for the exact reason you stated: mere exposure to the concept will allow people to rationalize performing the behavior even if they wouldn't before. Not only that, but think of all the cultures/jobs where it is normal for people to work much more than the typical 40 hour work week we are accustomed to. Do 18 year old Vietnamese fishermen working 80 hour weeks suffer from "ego depletion" the same way 18 year old college students do in the US? Probably not. It may be an element of our culture / upbringing that we put more emphasis on leisure, and not some psychological or neurological "need".

gregatragenet3 10y ago
I think you bring up a good example. I think a typical contract web developer in a western country is much more at risk for ego depletion then the Vietnamese fisherman example. One of the factors of ego depletion is decision fatigue. If the fisherman does not fish that day, he and his offspring go hungry, and if that decision is repeated they will starve to death. So not really a decision, not one that a rational being would make. If the web developer goofs off on reddit today, instead of looking for new contracting work he won't go hungy.. He can probably coast for a little bit.. Actually, he could potentially just go on welfare, but then he'd have to live in a worse part of town. If he moved in with friends he could work less hours a week and have more leisure time, etc. Lots of choices to make. Novelty is another ego depleter. The fisherman has done it day-in-day-out for years, probably his father and grandfather as well. It's muscle memory and he's on autopilot. The web developer is constantly novelty fatigued, learning new clients' environments and the latest web framework fads which change month by month. His day has no routine. As a contractor it is much more difficult for me, and probably I'm the most lazy and restless after coming off a project, with a decent balance in the bank. I am much more focused and mentally sure when the bank balance is low and I'm chasing down business because if I don't find something it'll get uncomfortable quick. Contrast that to when I was in the gulf of Papagayo, miles from shore, on a small sailboat in the middle of a storm. There was no ego depletion. I never thought 'well, should I continue battling the sea to keep this boat afloat and going to my destination?' There's no ego there, only survival. Does the Vietnamese fisherman have the harder life by most metrics? Absolutely. However there are downsides to the modern western world.
- jdietrich 10y ago
  Despite low pay and poor working conditions, workers in fishing, agriculture and forestry report exceptionally high levels of job satisfaction. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx%27s_theory_of_alienation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx%27s_theory_of_alienation
  - beaconstudios 10y ago
    it seems to me that for people in modernised industries, the disconnect is related to the fact that we work in non-natural environments. We evolved to live in nature and now we sit in artificially lit offices pressing plastic buttons to make electronic circuits fire the way we want them to. We have to be missing quite a few innate requirements that we get from wandering through fields and forests.
    - icantdrive55 10y ago
      My dad was an Electrician. He always used to say the perfect job would be arriving to a warm office, and sit in a chair for two hours doing work. Then spend the next five hours working with your hands, and body. (His union got seven hour days, and Electrical work is still very physical.) I bet there will be an outdoor office, and it will be featured here on HN. At the end of the day, people will most likely find something to complain about? I don't think I've ever been to a beach/outdoors with anyone who didn't have at least one gripe--eventually? Especially camping. Actually, I take that back, I once down the Rogue River, with two friends, whom were on acid the whole time, and I don't remember them complaining about anything. One almost died though.
    - ekianjo 10y ago
      Im not sure what your point is but if we follow your line of thought then we live in artificial environments as well. We use toilets too, and we dont gather food by ourselves for 95 % of us at least. Humans certainly did not evolve to live in nature but to model it to their liking.
      - 10y ago
taneq 10y ago
The kind of subsistence level jobs done all day every day in third world countries tend to be very mechanistic and/or low intensity. Those fishermen throw out a net and pull it back in after a while. The store keeper working 14 hour days spends most of that time sitting around reading a book. It's more that the lines between work and leisure are blurred than that they have a crazy high work ethic.
rand77763 10y ago
I wouldn't call "not working" "leisure". I work 80+ hours a week myself. But I recognize that there are more important things in this world and in this life than just working.
- remx 10y ago
  There's also all different types of work. Work on the body, the mind, etc

gregatragenet3 10y ago

I think you bring up a good example. I think a typical contract web developer in a western country is much more at risk for ego depletion then the Vietnamese fisherman example. One of the factors of ego depletion is decision fatigue. If the fisherman does not fish that day, he and his offspring go hungry, and if that decision is repeated they will starve to death. So not really a decision, not one that a rational being would make. If the web developer goofs off on reddit today, instead of looking for new contracting work he won't go hungy.. He can probably coast for a little bit.. Actually, he could potentially just go on welfare, but then he'd have to live in a worse part of town. If he moved in with friends he could work less hours a week and have more leisure time, etc. Lots of choices to make. Novelty is another ego depleter. The fisherman has done it day-in-day-out for years, probably his father and grandfather as well. It's muscle memory and he's on autopilot. The web developer is constantly novelty fatigued, learning new clients' environments and the latest web framework fads which change month by month. His day has no routine. As a contractor it is much more difficult for me, and probably I'm the most lazy and restless after coming off a project, with a decent balance in the bank. I am much more focused and mentally sure when the bank balance is low and I'm chasing down business because if I don't find something it'll get uncomfortable quick. Contrast that to when I was in the gulf of Papagayo, miles from shore, on a small sailboat in the middle of a storm. There was no ego depletion. I never thought 'well, should I continue battling the sea to keep this boat afloat and going to my destination?' There's no ego there, only survival. Does the Vietnamese fisherman have the harder life by most metrics? Absolutely. However there are downsides to the modern western world.

jdietrich 10y ago
Despite low pay and poor working conditions, workers in fishing, agriculture and forestry report exceptionally high levels of job satisfaction. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx%27s_theory_of_alienation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx%27s_theory_of_alienation
- beaconstudios 10y ago
  it seems to me that for people in modernised industries, the disconnect is related to the fact that we work in non-natural environments. We evolved to live in nature and now we sit in artificially lit offices pressing plastic buttons to make electronic circuits fire the way we want them to. We have to be missing quite a few innate requirements that we get from wandering through fields and forests.
  - icantdrive55 10y ago
    My dad was an Electrician. He always used to say the perfect job would be arriving to a warm office, and sit in a chair for two hours doing work. Then spend the next five hours working with your hands, and body. (His union got seven hour days, and Electrical work is still very physical.) I bet there will be an outdoor office, and it will be featured here on HN. At the end of the day, people will most likely find something to complain about? I don't think I've ever been to a beach/outdoors with anyone who didn't have at least one gripe--eventually? Especially camping. Actually, I take that back, I once down the Rogue River, with two friends, whom were on acid the whole time, and I don't remember them complaining about anything. One almost died though.
  - ekianjo 10y ago
    Im not sure what your point is but if we follow your line of thought then we live in artificial environments as well. We use toilets too, and we dont gather food by ourselves for 95 % of us at least. Humans certainly did not evolve to live in nature but to model it to their liking.
    - 10y ago

taneq 10y ago

The kind of subsistence level jobs done all day every day in third world countries tend to be very mechanistic and/or low intensity. Those fishermen throw out a net and pull it back in after a while. The store keeper working 14 hour days spends most of that time sitting around reading a book. It's more that the lines between work and leisure are blurred than that they have a crazy high work ethic.

rand77763 10y ago

I wouldn't call "not working" "leisure". I work 80+ hours a week myself. But I recognize that there are more important things in this world and in this life than just working.

remx 10y ago
There's also all different types of work. Work on the body, the mind, etc